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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio and now

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here's gene Steinberg as you know ladies

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and gentlemen a lot of the well-known

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personalities and UFO and paranormal

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fields are involved in lecture tours and

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sometimes they do that just to meet

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people maybe sell a few books maybe make

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a few dollars but I should point out

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that very very few people in the UFO

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field make money now years ago years ago

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Jim Mosely got on the lecture circuit

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and I think in part he was undercutting

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the late major Donald Kehoe he said I

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can go on there and give you a perfectly

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entertaining UFO lecture and I'll charge

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less than he did and a couple of times I

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went on those lectures when Jim didn't

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want to accept the amount of money they

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offered it was pretty good you know you

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get your plane fare paid you make five

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hundred or a thousand dollars for a

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lecture tour this is not like a famous

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politician getting you know half a mil

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forty years ago yeah we are in the wrong

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business I don't do much business I'm

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not a lecturer I do very good radio but

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I do not do lectures on the other hand

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over the years I think Jim finally gave

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it up when he got into his senior years

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and he stopped doing it I never pursued

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the lecture circuit

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I know Stanton Friedman does a lot of

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that you do what occasionally and as a

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matter of fact this month and we're in

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January of 2012 in case you were

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listening to this show later on you are

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going to do a few can you tell us more

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well I've been invited out to California

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to do a sweep through the state and this

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will be my third time back there in jeez

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14 years I can go about every five years

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it seems and I'm gonna be up in San Jose

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on January 15th and then the 17th and

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18th I'll be in the LA area at La MUFON

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and also Orange County MUFON and I was

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invited out I was out there last summer

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for the international symposium you

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and one of the people there who I talked

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to books they're their tours to the

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States so I was asked to come out I'm

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doing something a little different I do

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have quite a number of presentations I

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think about six now and I'm gonna be

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looking at the and really analyzing the

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pop culture connections between the UFO

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phenomenon and attendant phenomenon like

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abductions crop circles cattle

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mutilations religious miracles and

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looking at the whole concept of the

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media and how the media formulates and

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kind of creates belief systems within

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the culture and it's gonna be fun

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freewheeling I've got over 350 images in

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my presentation I kind of work on my

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stand-up routine beforehand and crack

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some jokes keep it light and keep it

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entertaining thoughtful and creative I

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tell people when I get up there that if

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a quarter of you don't walk out pissed

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off at me I haven't done my job so

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that's kind of my my modus operandi in

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these things of course you know being

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the trickster you got to come up with

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some out-of-the-box thinking to make

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people scratch their heads a little so

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basically you have to pull a few tricks

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oh yeah all the tricks there's no fun

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well remember what I am when I tried to

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tell one of my jokes to kevin randall he

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wasn't quite he wasn't amused one of my

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first appearances here at the pair of

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cast as a host i asked have you heard

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about the new the new dream team the

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roswell dream team I don't remember this

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maybe it's out of sight out of mind

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you know you tell your I can't Randall

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it it's full of Schmidt the sounds of

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sound gentleman there are people out

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there who say I tell bad jokes and my

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response is I resemble that remark but

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actually I don't tell jokes what I do is

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tell silly disk jockey

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you know puns that kind of thing well

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that's as much as I do so the people

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will say I tell bad jokes I don't think

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I ever told more than one or two jokes

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on this show since 2006 that's a bad rap

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and I don't even rap that would be

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pretty bad to imagine me but don't go

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there please gee I'm not going I feel

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good

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okay so once again if people want to

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learn more about your public

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appearances do the organizations that

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sponsor them present this or do you have

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it on your site or what yeah

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California MUFON LA MUFON Orange County

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MUFON I'm not sure what they call the

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other chapter up there it's the chapter

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up in San Jose they have announcements

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on their sites we have an announcement

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on the para cast and if you go to my

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website they'll be one up shortly well

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we look forward to seeing that and by

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the way we're trying really trying to

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update Chris's site our strange planet

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that's come and most of it has been that

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the person who volunteered to do it has

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been occupied with other pursuits

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starting a new business the holidays the

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family and everything and they keep

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saying he'll get to it and I keep

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looking at better ways to present your

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site so it's gonna be updated soon the

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meantime you know check it out our

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strange planet comm LLC speaking of

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strange things before we get into our

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special guests this week and that's Nick

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Redfern his offer of a new book called

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keep out about top secret places

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governments don't want you to know about

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Chris have you ever been to any of these

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top secret places well I've been near a

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few but of course I've never actually

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been to them I've been on the infamous

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mailbox Road to area 51

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I've been around the skunkworks

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site and back east I've been near some

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of the continuation of government

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facilities I've scouted out potential

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locations for underground facilities in

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the San Luis Valley and around the New

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Mexico Colorado border area of course

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I've done an extensive an exploration

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and around the Archuleta Mesa region

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just north of the town of dulce and you

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know I've done I've done quite a bit of

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tramping around of course I've been a

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real fan of Richard Sauter's work

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underground bases and tunnels what is

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the government trying to hide we know of

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129 underground extensive underground

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facilities that are part of the public

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record and that's probably just the tip

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of the iceberg so we're gonna have fun

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with Nick today oh yeah this is gonna be

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very interesting I've never gone to any

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secret places but I know that one of the

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things we're going to want to explore as

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we progress and

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large part of the book understand he

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covers a lot of supposedly secret places

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there and I want to get more into the

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London Underground on the London subway

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although I have to wonder about the New

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York subway speaking of secret places

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you have to think the New York subway

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before we go anywhere else the New York

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subway was first built in the 19th

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century okay that's what was first

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assembled and you have to think with all

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those snaking tunnels it's one of the

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largest subway systems in the world what

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lurks down there you see all the horror

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movies about strange creatures and

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things lurking in the subways there's a

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hole there's a whole kind of a

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subculture that lives in the New York

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subways there's a lot of homeless people

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that have turned abandoned let's say

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spurs that have been closed off by you

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know by the MTA they've turned them into

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kind of squatters locations for and

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people actually live down there you have

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to think also it's a pretty filthy place

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yeah you know all the vermin all that

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stuff that's going on down there I'm not

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thinking about snakes

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and strange creatures but you have to

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wonder what confess through there and

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later on we're going to ask Nick about

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London and the London subways I've never

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taken them the other subways I've taken

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well Chicago which is kind of similar to

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New York also BART which is the Bay Area

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Transit System which is in San Francisco

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and around San Francisco but that's

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pretty new you know so there's not yeah

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enough years for strange creatures and

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filth to fester there give it time Jean

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it always gets there you always have to

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wonder though you get the impression

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when you're writing those things that

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you know there's a cleanliness issue

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that isn't being dealt with you know

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it's kind of left kind of the second

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shrift I know there are a lot of

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dedicated people who work for this

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transit systems in fact my late father

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worked on the New York City Transit

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System mostly on the surface transit

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which is the buses but you always felt

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you know

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that you were treated as if well you

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have to ride a subway why can't you have

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a car of course in New York it's not

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like that in New York of course lots of

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people take public transportation but

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you get to a lot of other places

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sometimes it's the second shift

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it's a second choice it's the one for

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people who don't have cars and you

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wonder if you don't have enough traffic

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strange things might happen weird things

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it might be happening below the surface

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of the planet

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not necessarily D rose and T rose okay

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yeah

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not necessarily caves or the vast cave

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systems but lots of stuff going on the

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book from Nick Redfern is called keep

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out and he's coming up next with Jeana

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and Chris you're in the para cast so

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here's what happened I was placing an

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order online the site went down it just

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stopped responding it took hours before

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it returned but I'd already placed the

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order with another company if your site

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goes down you could lose business and if

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you have a business or personal site

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you'll want to know it's easy to run and

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it will stay online at iWeb your site is

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hosted on one of the most reliable

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networks in the world check it out

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I web comm that's iWeb comm fate

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magazine provides true reports of the

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strange and unknown keep up with the

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latest on angels and miracle psychic

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phenomena ghosts UFOs life after death

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and much much more

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340
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to hear from you if you have a comment

341
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or question about the forecast send it

342
00:14:16,090 --> 00:14:11,210
to news at the para cast com

343
00:14:17,910 --> 00:14:16,100
that's news at the para cast calm and if

344
00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:17,920
you'd like to catch up on past episodes

345
00:14:24,850 --> 00:14:20,690
we have hundreds of shows for you to

346
00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:24,860
download direct from the para cast com

347
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that's the para cast dot-com or check us

348
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:33,980
out at iTunes this is the Redfearn abode

349
00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:37,130
is this in the underground in London

350
00:14:42,910 --> 00:14:40,490
well kind of semi what is kind of semi

351
00:14:46,030 --> 00:14:42,920
mean you mean you're half there and half

352
00:14:50,230 --> 00:14:46,040
not it means I'm a serial oh boy we have

353
00:14:52,890 --> 00:14:50,240
the ethereal Nick Redfern with Gina and

354
00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:52,900
Christian the para cast welcome back

355
00:14:58,900 --> 00:14:56,690
guys oh it's going nicely we're starting

356
00:15:01,990 --> 00:14:58,910
off a new year with you and the question

357
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:02,000
I have is is it true that we bring you

358
00:15:15,340 --> 00:15:04,970
on just for the laughter that great

359
00:15:18,010 --> 00:15:15,350
laugh okay we'll give you a chance okay

360
00:15:20,500 --> 00:15:18,020
the book is called keep out now what

361
00:15:22,690 --> 00:15:20,510
inspired you to seek the places around

362
00:15:24,820 --> 00:15:22,700
the world that governments don't want

363
00:15:26,470 --> 00:15:24,830
you to visit and there's a couple of

364
00:15:28,420 --> 00:15:26,480
things really I mean one of the things I

365
00:15:30,550 --> 00:15:28,430
would sort of point out to people is if

366
00:15:33,850 --> 00:15:30,560
the book isn't a study of like secret

367
00:15:36,630 --> 00:15:33,860
locations per se or period it's ones

368
00:15:39,460 --> 00:15:36,640
that specifically have a link to UFOs

369
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:39,470
paranormal or supernatural so in other

370
00:15:43,190 --> 00:15:40,970
words you know there are chapters on

371
00:15:46,070 --> 00:15:43,200
things like area 51 and hangar 18

372
00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:46,080
but there aren't chapters on some vaults

373
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:48,510
and the Pentagon or whatever you know I

374
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:50,490
don't get involved in sort of political

375
00:15:55,460 --> 00:15:53,010
conspiracies so it's just bases where

376
00:15:58,100 --> 00:15:55,470
people make allegations about aliens and

377
00:15:59,690 --> 00:15:58,110
so forth and with that said I mean one

378
00:16:01,520 --> 00:15:59,700
of the reasons why sort of wanting to

379
00:16:03,380 --> 00:16:01,530
ride the book is because you know

380
00:16:06,470 --> 00:16:03,390
everybody when it comes to secret bases

381
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:06,480
and UFOs talks about 51 you know that's

382
00:16:10,370 --> 00:16:08,610
the one that's become so ingrained in

383
00:16:13,010 --> 00:16:10,380
not just the UFO field but popular

384
00:16:14,660 --> 00:16:13,020
culture as well I guess within ufology

385
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:14,670
you know it's sort of little brother is

386
00:16:19,220 --> 00:16:17,130
hangar 18 or the stories of hangar 18

387
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:19,230
wright-patterson Air Force Base you know

388
00:16:23,510 --> 00:16:20,880
there are actually all around the world

389
00:16:25,370 --> 00:16:23,520
a lot of secret installations or

390
00:16:28,100 --> 00:16:25,380
off-limits installations is probably a

391
00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:28,110
better way of termina with links to UFOs

392
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:30,090
you know military people coming forward

393
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:32,130
and I thought well you know why not try

394
00:16:37,610 --> 00:16:34,890
instead of just going over just area 51

395
00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:37,620
etc etc why not bring forward some of

396
00:16:41,540 --> 00:16:39,330
these other stories about additional

397
00:16:43,940 --> 00:16:41,550
locations and facilities and you know

398
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:43,950
demonstrate to people the story of

399
00:16:49,220 --> 00:16:46,170
off-limits places with links to UFOs

400
00:16:51,650 --> 00:16:49,230
doesn't begin and end with area 51 okay

401
00:16:53,780 --> 00:16:51,660
looking though at the area 51

402
00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:53,790
specifically just for a short period of

403
00:17:00,440 --> 00:16:57,210
time how then did this gain such

404
00:17:03,530 --> 00:17:00,450
attention as being the place to go for

405
00:17:06,829 --> 00:17:03,540
unusual goings-on well I mean although

406
00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:06,839
area 51 as a location if you like you

407
00:17:10,699 --> 00:17:08,850
know it's been around for decades you

408
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:10,709
know I mean literally decades the issue

409
00:17:15,949 --> 00:17:13,770
of it's sort of relationship to UFOs in

410
00:17:19,069 --> 00:17:15,959
terms of its lifespan is actually sort

411
00:17:20,990 --> 00:17:19,079
of a relatively recent one area 51 is

412
00:17:23,270 --> 00:17:21,000
actually just sort of one of a number of

413
00:17:25,220 --> 00:17:23,280
areas on what's called the Nevada test

414
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:25,230
and training range in the state of

415
00:17:28,250 --> 00:17:26,730
Nevada which actually extends to more

416
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:28,260
than four and a half thousand square

417
00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:31,170
miles so it's like a huge area an area

418
00:17:35,870 --> 00:17:34,110
51 is I said is just part of it back in

419
00:17:37,820 --> 00:17:35,880
certainly in the 50s we know that you

420
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:37,830
know things like spy planes were tested

421
00:17:43,070 --> 00:17:40,170
from there the u2 and the later on the

422
00:17:45,860 --> 00:17:43,080
Blackbird the sr-71 stealth technology

423
00:17:48,290 --> 00:17:45,870
was also experimented with and tested

424
00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:48,300
there so in other words the base has

425
00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:51,090
been an active location for decades but

426
00:17:55,580 --> 00:17:53,370
it was pretty much under the radar not

427
00:17:56,989 --> 00:17:55,590
just because of the secrecy but simply

428
00:17:58,759 --> 00:17:56,999
because there was nothing that really

429
00:18:00,439 --> 00:17:58,769
captured anybody's imagination you know

430
00:18:02,239 --> 00:18:00,449
beyond the fact that unless you're an

431
00:18:03,919 --> 00:18:02,249
aviation spotter you know all these

432
00:18:06,859 --> 00:18:03,929
people go that's looking for planes or

433
00:18:08,089 --> 00:18:06,869
whatever and it really was only in sort

434
00:18:09,709 --> 00:18:08,099
of the latter part of the nineteen

435
00:18:12,559 --> 00:18:09,719
eighties that it sort of came to the

436
00:18:16,189 --> 00:18:12,569
fore with Bob Lazar revelations about

437
00:18:19,009 --> 00:18:16,199
working an aspect of area 51 called s4

438
00:18:21,499 --> 00:18:19,019
and of course you know Lazar story still

439
00:18:23,629 --> 00:18:21,509
exists and is circulated to this day and

440
00:18:26,539 --> 00:18:23,639
there are many people who think he's you

441
00:18:28,429 --> 00:18:26,549
know an outright fraud except his story

442
00:18:30,799 --> 00:18:28,439
you know of alien craft being back

443
00:18:32,449 --> 00:18:30,809
engineered at the base and in between

444
00:18:33,919 --> 00:18:32,459
those people you know there are other

445
00:18:37,369 --> 00:18:33,929
people who take the view that maybe

446
00:18:38,479 --> 00:18:37,379
Lazar was spread was disinformation but

447
00:18:40,819 --> 00:18:38,489
he did work everybody was fed

448
00:18:43,819 --> 00:18:40,829
disinformation to hide the fact that

449
00:18:45,319 --> 00:18:43,829
maybe some of these UFOs actually secret

450
00:18:46,539 --> 00:18:45,329
military aircraft and you know the

451
00:18:49,969 --> 00:18:46,549
government was happy to sort of

452
00:18:53,419 --> 00:18:49,979
perpetuate a UFO myth to hide some sort

453
00:18:55,069 --> 00:18:53,429
of deeper military program so in other

454
00:18:58,069 --> 00:18:55,079
words I think the fact that you know

455
00:19:00,409 --> 00:18:58,079
we're still discussing Lazar 23 24 years

456
00:19:03,379 --> 00:19:00,419
after he first surfaced almost quarter

457
00:19:05,449 --> 00:19:03,389
of a century is a testament to the fact

458
00:19:07,309 --> 00:19:05,459
that we really don't have a clear

459
00:19:08,959 --> 00:19:07,319
picture of what goes on there you know

460
00:19:11,689 --> 00:19:08,969
if we did we would have all the answer

461
00:19:13,549 --> 00:19:11,699
so I think the Lazar story on its own

462
00:19:16,789 --> 00:19:13,559
demonstrates the secrecy secrecy

463
00:19:18,529 --> 00:19:16,799
surrounding area 51 simply because we

464
00:19:20,629 --> 00:19:18,539
know we haven't been able to resolve the

465
00:19:23,419 --> 00:19:20,639
mystery well that's a good question too

466
00:19:25,099 --> 00:19:23,429
with Lazar how much evidence is he

467
00:19:28,009 --> 00:19:25,109
producing he's actually ever been down

468
00:19:30,529 --> 00:19:28,019
there what he got one stub of a paycheck

469
00:19:32,299 --> 00:19:30,539
that maybe he worked three or four hours

470
00:19:33,919 --> 00:19:32,309
somewhere well you know I mean this is

471
00:19:36,049 --> 00:19:33,929
the thing about Lazar that a lot of

472
00:19:38,539 --> 00:19:36,059
people kind of find intriguing and

473
00:19:40,249 --> 00:19:38,549
fascinating is that you know he on the

474
00:19:42,709 --> 00:19:40,259
one hand he doesn't come across like a

475
00:19:44,299 --> 00:19:42,719
normal hoaxer and i'll tell you what i

476
00:19:47,059 --> 00:19:44,309
mean by that you know I mean I've spoken

477
00:19:48,829 --> 00:19:47,069
to enough people within the UFO field

478
00:19:50,889 --> 00:19:48,839
that whereas most people I think you

479
00:19:54,109 --> 00:19:50,899
know are honest and earnest etc etc

480
00:19:56,599 --> 00:19:54,119
hoaxes particularly people who hoax UFO

481
00:19:58,609 --> 00:19:56,609
encounters you often find the story gets

482
00:20:00,679 --> 00:19:58,619
embroidered upon an added to over time

483
00:20:02,449 --> 00:20:00,689
and when a problem surfaces you know

484
00:20:04,039 --> 00:20:02,459
they explain it away by adding something

485
00:20:06,529 --> 00:20:04,049
else you know kind of like the George

486
00:20:08,419 --> 00:20:06,539
Adamski etc where you know there's a new

487
00:20:10,129 --> 00:20:08,429
layer added to it every time somebody

488
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:10,139
questions something there's our story

489
00:20:12,650 --> 00:20:10,890
regarding

490
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:12,660
to what people say about it actually

491
00:20:16,370 --> 00:20:14,640
hasn't changed at all you know he just

492
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:16,380
said obviously what happened and when

493
00:20:18,710 --> 00:20:18,090
people said well how about this he said

494
00:20:20,750 --> 00:20:18,720
my now No

495
00:20:23,150 --> 00:20:20,760
so in that sense he doesn't come across

496
00:20:25,220 --> 00:20:23,160
like someone who's constantly adding to

497
00:20:28,010 --> 00:20:25,230
his story embroidering on it's you know

498
00:20:29,420 --> 00:20:28,020
every two minutes so to speak Lazar does

499
00:20:31,550 --> 00:20:29,430
actually have an interesting background

500
00:20:33,830 --> 00:20:31,560
there's absolutely no doubt about that

501
00:20:36,260 --> 00:20:33,840
for example he was Lee the subject of a

502
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:36,270
front-page article in 1982 in the New

503
00:20:41,300 --> 00:20:39,090
Mexico base Los Alamos monitor newspaper

504
00:20:43,610 --> 00:20:41,310
what's interesting is that he's

505
00:20:45,980 --> 00:20:43,620
identified in the newspaper back in 82

506
00:20:48,260 --> 00:20:45,990
is working at Los Alamos who's Nissan

507
00:20:50,510 --> 00:20:48,270
Physics facility which is today called

508
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:50,520
the Los Alamos Neutron Science Center

509
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:51,810
where a lot of sort of cutting-edge

510
00:20:55,610 --> 00:20:53,730
research into particle physics is

511
00:20:58,100 --> 00:20:55,620
undertaken that's a provable fact that

512
00:20:59,660 --> 00:20:58,110
he did work there and he also you know

513
00:21:01,910 --> 00:20:59,670
he's number turns up in the Los Alamos

514
00:21:04,460 --> 00:21:01,920
phone book the official phone book now

515
00:21:05,780 --> 00:21:04,470
again that's not you know he s a rumor

516
00:21:08,420 --> 00:21:05,790
that that's fact you know if you can

517
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:08,430
find a Los Alamos 1982 phone book you'll

518
00:21:12,530 --> 00:21:10,410
see Lazar in there that in itself is

519
00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:12,540
interesting now another thing that kind

520
00:21:16,490 --> 00:21:14,370
of keeps the door open a little bit is

521
00:21:18,290 --> 00:21:16,500
that Lazar said that one of the people

522
00:21:21,770 --> 00:21:18,300
who was sort of instrumental in getting

523
00:21:23,930 --> 00:21:21,780
him an interview to work at area 51 was

524
00:21:27,230 --> 00:21:23,940
Edward Teller who he bumped into a

525
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:27,240
lecture in the early 1980s at Los Alamos

526
00:21:32,930 --> 00:21:30,330
now if someone like teller of his sort

527
00:21:35,510 --> 00:21:32,940
of standing and you know historical

528
00:21:37,430 --> 00:21:35,520
position him you know the world etc in

529
00:21:39,260 --> 00:21:37,440
the US government and you know the

530
00:21:40,970 --> 00:21:39,270
history of it you know somebody

531
00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:40,980
approached him and said you know this

532
00:21:44,330 --> 00:21:42,510
guy named Bob Lazar is telling this

533
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:44,340
story about how you arranged for him to

534
00:21:48,710 --> 00:21:46,290
have an interview and that ultimately

535
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:48,720
led him to working on alien spacecraft

536
00:21:51,740 --> 00:21:49,890
in area 51

537
00:21:53,540 --> 00:21:51,750
you would imagine that teller would not

538
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:53,550
just say no it's you would imagine that

539
00:21:58,310 --> 00:21:55,650
teller would simply say you know that's

540
00:22:00,860 --> 00:21:58,320
complete nonsense I didn't give him any

541
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:00,870
sort of window if you like to an

542
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:04,530
interview at area 51 at all but that

543
00:22:08,450 --> 00:22:06,450
isn't what happened instead what did

544
00:22:11,210 --> 00:22:08,460
happen is that when he was put on the

545
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:11,220
spot by TV journalist terror absolutely

546
00:22:15,110 --> 00:22:13,410
squirmed and tried to work his way out

547
00:22:17,150 --> 00:22:15,120
of even answering any questions about

548
00:22:18,980 --> 00:22:17,160
Lazar and just basically said something

549
00:22:21,140 --> 00:22:18,990
along the lines of well maybe I met him

550
00:22:22,790 --> 00:22:21,150
and if I did meet him and I thought I

551
00:22:24,590 --> 00:22:22,800
liked him maybe I referred him to

552
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:24,600
somebody else but I don't remember

553
00:22:28,970 --> 00:22:26,850
that was pretty weird yeah well before

554
00:22:31,070 --> 00:22:28,980
we get more weird if you have a comment

555
00:22:33,830 --> 00:22:31,080
or question about the show write us news

556
00:22:36,650 --> 00:22:33,840
of the para cast com that's news at the

557
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para cast com the book is keep out by

558
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:38,340
Nick Redfern with Jeanne and Chris

559
00:22:51,260 --> 00:22:49,039
[Music]

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665
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hi this is Don Ecker and you are tuned

666
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:06,920
in to the para CASP let me tell you what

667
00:27:12,790 --> 00:27:09,290
you're gonna hear stuff here that you

668
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:12,800
probably won't hear anywhere else hear

669
00:27:17,830 --> 00:27:15,650
that George snoring with Gene and Kris

670
00:27:19,330 --> 00:27:17,840
you're in the power cast talking to Nick

671
00:27:22,180 --> 00:27:19,340
Redfern the book is called keep out

672
00:27:24,370 --> 00:27:22,190
we're talking about Bob Lazar and dr.

673
00:27:25,990 --> 00:27:24,380
teller basically squirming his way out

674
00:27:27,940 --> 00:27:26,000
of it and I remember the passage in the

675
00:27:30,790 --> 00:27:27,950
book and I really that's kind of weird

676
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:30,800
you know this is the thing about Lazar

677
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:32,450
is but everything about it he's weird

678
00:27:36,670 --> 00:27:34,610
there's nothing black and white I mean

679
00:27:38,260 --> 00:27:36,680
Stan Freeman made a famous tape he said

680
00:27:41,500 --> 00:27:38,270
you know this is just bonk bonk bonk

681
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:41,510
that never stands words on the matter

682
00:27:45,930 --> 00:27:43,970
but on the other hand you know people

683
00:27:48,790 --> 00:27:45,940
say well those are was this some kind of

684
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:48,800
alternative unusual guy you know he had

685
00:27:53,110 --> 00:27:50,690
a finger in a lot of different pies and

686
00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:53,120
you worked on sort of futuristic jet

687
00:27:57,370 --> 00:27:55,130
cars and all sorts of different things

688
00:28:03,630 --> 00:27:57,380
now yeah in aura house surveillance

689
00:28:06,190 --> 00:28:03,640
systems exactly and rocket-powered gars

690
00:28:08,380 --> 00:28:06,200
that's right and you know my view and

691
00:28:11,110 --> 00:28:08,390
this is actually being brought up is

692
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:11,120
that if you have you know if you're in

693
00:28:16,030 --> 00:28:12,890
charge of some sort of super secret

694
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:16,040
program to back engineer crashed UFOs or

695
00:28:21,100 --> 00:28:19,010
recovered UFOs or donated UFOs who knows

696
00:28:22,930 --> 00:28:21,110
how they got there if they're there but

697
00:28:25,450 --> 00:28:22,940
if you're working on that program and

698
00:28:28,060 --> 00:28:25,460
you want to maintain the secrecy you

699
00:28:29,650 --> 00:28:28,070
don't get people in on the project

700
00:28:31,870 --> 00:28:29,660
there's some of the most famous people

701
00:28:33,430 --> 00:28:31,880
you know in the scientific world who

702
00:28:35,740 --> 00:28:33,440
might possibly want to blow the whistle

703
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:35,750
as a means to you know give themself a

704
00:28:40,660 --> 00:28:39,050
place in in historical legend for the

705
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:40,670
next you know two thousand years or

706
00:28:45,370 --> 00:28:42,770
whatever what do you do instead well

707
00:28:47,980 --> 00:28:45,380
maybe you hire maverick people who on

708
00:28:49,930 --> 00:28:47,990
the one hand like a lot of people very

709
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:49,940
brilliant but equally very alternative

710
00:28:54,820 --> 00:28:53,330
and also you hire someone who maybe has

711
00:28:56,950 --> 00:28:54,830
a history in a background but if you

712
00:28:58,660 --> 00:28:56,960
need to discredit him it can be easily

713
00:29:00,100 --> 00:28:58,670
done well that's the thing about his

714
00:29:02,710 --> 00:29:00,110
background which is very important

715
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:02,720
claiming that he has certain levels of

716
00:29:06,790 --> 00:29:04,730
education but it's kind of like the

717
00:29:09,070 --> 00:29:06,800
situation we ran into with Phil and

718
00:29:10,780 --> 00:29:09,080
Brock know not too long ago where you

719
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:10,790
try to track down the person's

720
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:12,610
educational

721
00:29:16,830 --> 00:29:15,250
chills and you fall short yeah can you

722
00:29:18,780 --> 00:29:16,840
be specific about this just so our

723
00:29:20,910 --> 00:29:18,790
listeners understand my context yeah

724
00:29:23,789 --> 00:29:20,920
sure I mean a lot of research has been

725
00:29:28,020 --> 00:29:23,799
done you know in to not just lose our

726
00:29:30,750 --> 00:29:28,030
story but precisely who Lazar is you

727
00:29:32,610 --> 00:29:30,760
know and where he came from etc now we

728
00:29:34,980 --> 00:29:32,620
know several things with that without

729
00:29:37,980 --> 00:29:34,990
beyond any to shadow of death one he was

730
00:29:40,980 --> 00:29:37,990
born in 59 in Florida and he attended

731
00:29:42,750 --> 00:29:40,990
the Los angeles-based Pierce College in

732
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:42,760
the 70s where he took courses in

733
00:29:47,940 --> 00:29:44,850
electronics and he spent some time

734
00:29:50,909 --> 00:29:47,950
employed with Fairchild company founded

735
00:29:53,909 --> 00:29:50,919
in 59 by the co-inventor of the

736
00:29:56,669 --> 00:29:53,919
transistor William Shockley now Lazar

737
00:29:58,560 --> 00:29:56,679
claimed and and still continues to claim

738
00:30:01,590 --> 00:29:58,570
that it received an MS in electronics

739
00:30:04,740 --> 00:30:01,600
from Caltech and an MS in physics from

740
00:30:06,450 --> 00:30:04,750
MIT now that's those two latter points

741
00:30:08,909 --> 00:30:06,460
that's never been proved you know that's

742
00:30:11,789 --> 00:30:08,919
one of the big sort of sticky areas if

743
00:30:14,340 --> 00:30:11,799
you like but it's I want a to override

744
00:30:16,490 --> 00:30:14,350
it but it's compounded by the fact that

745
00:30:18,750 --> 00:30:16,500
we can prove he worked in a very

746
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:18,760
responsible and intriguing position at

747
00:30:24,180 --> 00:30:21,490
Los Alamos in the early eighties so you

748
00:30:26,250 --> 00:30:24,190
know if he didn't get the MS and you're

749
00:30:28,530 --> 00:30:26,260
the 2ms is unibody electronics and one

750
00:30:30,990 --> 00:30:28,540
in physics something to open the door

751
00:30:33,210 --> 00:30:31,000
for him to work at Los Alamos and is it

752
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:33,220
possible he did what some people do

753
00:30:38,669 --> 00:30:35,770
which is he falsified his credentials to

754
00:30:44,039 --> 00:30:38,679
get there and once they realized it they

755
00:30:45,900 --> 00:30:44,049
just said goodbye well I mean of that

756
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:45,910
but I mean you know he wasn't fired from

757
00:30:51,060 --> 00:30:48,010
Los Alamos you know he talks about being

758
00:30:53,850 --> 00:30:51,070
fired from area 51 and basically slung

759
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:53,860
out but you know he just moved on to

760
00:30:57,659 --> 00:30:55,570
different things have to work in a Los

761
00:30:59,760 --> 00:30:57,669
Alamos but the fact is you know we can

762
00:31:02,850 --> 00:30:59,770
prove that he worked there so in other

763
00:31:04,590 --> 00:31:02,860
words if the only thing he did it she

764
00:31:06,750 --> 00:31:04,600
was a course in electronics at Pierce

765
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:06,760
College it kind of sounds strange that

766
00:31:10,710 --> 00:31:08,770
he would be working at the basic you

767
00:31:13,289 --> 00:31:10,720
know the elite of Los Alamos only a

768
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:13,299
couple years later so I think you know

769
00:31:17,730 --> 00:31:15,130
there are certain parts of Lazar story

770
00:31:19,260 --> 00:31:17,740
that are still sort of shrouded in in

771
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:19,270
mystery but there are problems you know

772
00:31:23,970 --> 00:31:21,850
I don't deny that and the educational

773
00:31:26,159 --> 00:31:23,980
background one where you know people

774
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:26,169
said oh well the government's China

775
00:31:31,049 --> 00:31:28,570
just wipe out his history you know

776
00:31:32,729 --> 00:31:31,059
that's okay for conspiracy thriller but

777
00:31:34,979 --> 00:31:32,739
if you were to look into it you know

778
00:31:36,509 --> 00:31:34,989
there should be people who took classes

779
00:31:37,889 --> 00:31:36,519
with him that might remember him or

780
00:31:39,509 --> 00:31:37,899
there should be at least some paper

781
00:31:41,460 --> 00:31:39,519
trail you know the idea that the

782
00:31:43,769 --> 00:31:41,470
government would go into MIT and

783
00:31:46,619 --> 00:31:43,779
possibly remove every scrap of paper and

784
00:31:48,330 --> 00:31:46,629
that and the story of that removal never

785
00:31:50,249 --> 00:31:48,340
ever surfacing from anyone

786
00:31:53,129 --> 00:31:50,259
kind of sounds a little bit over-the-top

787
00:31:55,229 --> 00:31:53,139
to me it sounds like J&K in the movie

788
00:31:58,320 --> 00:31:55,239
men in black where the Will Smith

789
00:32:01,169 --> 00:31:58,330
character had his entire life history

790
00:32:04,590 --> 00:32:01,179
erase it to become one of the many I

791
00:32:06,930 --> 00:32:04,600
don't think that's to completely do that

792
00:32:08,639 --> 00:32:06,940
but what I would say you know the fact

793
00:32:11,369 --> 00:32:08,649
that we have these other factors coming

794
00:32:13,529 --> 00:32:11,379
into play leaves the door open for me

795
00:32:15,810 --> 00:32:13,539
you know I find it difficult when it

796
00:32:17,820 --> 00:32:15,820
comes to lazar to be black and white

797
00:32:20,369 --> 00:32:17,830
because that's me nothing black and

798
00:32:22,799 --> 00:32:20,379
white a very story it's it's a shade of

799
00:32:25,109 --> 00:32:22,809
gray I'd have to get him on the show one

800
00:32:27,269 --> 00:32:25,119
day don't you think so yes yeah I think

801
00:32:30,269 --> 00:32:27,279
would be great one thing I'm I want to

802
00:32:33,090 --> 00:32:30,279
say here is it respect George Knapp as

803
00:32:35,419 --> 00:32:33,100
being one of our top investigative

804
00:32:38,759 --> 00:32:35,429
journalists in the field and a longtime

805
00:32:42,599 --> 00:32:38,769
award-winning broadcaster and reporter

806
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:42,609
and journalist for kis LB I think or KSA

807
00:32:48,119 --> 00:32:45,850
a be the think it's the NBC affiliate in

808
00:32:49,830 --> 00:32:48,129
Las Vegas the very fact that George

809
00:32:51,899 --> 00:32:49,840
Knapp was the one that broke the Bob

810
00:32:53,909 --> 00:32:51,909
Lazar story I think carries a lot of

811
00:32:56,129 --> 00:32:53,919
weight in my book because George I know

812
00:32:58,019 --> 00:32:56,139
dots his eyes and crosses his T's and

813
00:33:00,810 --> 00:32:58,029
and if he was convinced alas our story

814
00:33:03,749 --> 00:33:00,820
was real and was willing to come out and

815
00:33:05,639 --> 00:33:03,759
expose this story then I think there was

816
00:33:10,259 --> 00:33:05,649
enough there to at least prove to Knapp

817
00:33:13,529 --> 00:33:10,269
that that Lazar was legitimate was

818
00:33:15,090 --> 00:33:13,539
legitimate in the sense that very period

819
00:33:17,549 --> 00:33:15,100
of time he was out there I do actually

820
00:33:19,169 --> 00:33:17,559
believe that now the big question is you

821
00:33:21,330 --> 00:33:19,179
know the nature of what he actually saw

822
00:33:22,950 --> 00:33:21,340
you know by and lazarre's own admission

823
00:33:24,899 --> 00:33:22,960
he said that the staff there played you

824
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:24,909
know all sorts of weird mind games on

825
00:33:29,909 --> 00:33:27,730
the people working there and some of

826
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:29,919
these kind of you're exposing him to the

827
00:33:34,589 --> 00:33:31,450
edge of the craft you know if you're

828
00:33:36,269 --> 00:33:34,599
working on craft of some sort of

829
00:33:37,799 --> 00:33:36,279
advanced technology you know you've been

830
00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:37,809
asked to work on the program and

831
00:33:41,820 --> 00:33:39,760
understand it and kind of

832
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:41,830
prove it so to speak you know that's one

833
00:33:47,330 --> 00:33:43,530
thing but Lazar said he was also

834
00:33:49,110 --> 00:33:47,340
provided with masses of material on back

835
00:33:51,660 --> 00:33:49,120
documentation zat a classified

836
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:51,670
documentation on super secret UFO

837
00:33:55,170 --> 00:33:53,530
programs in the history of an alien

838
00:33:58,050 --> 00:33:55,180
presence on earth it was tied in with

839
00:34:00,660 --> 00:33:58,060
religion and all sorts of things now you

840
00:34:02,190 --> 00:34:00,670
know I could be entirely wrong but for

841
00:34:05,610 --> 00:34:02,200
me you know if you're going to be

842
00:34:08,250 --> 00:34:05,620
working on a classified program do you

843
00:34:10,470 --> 00:34:08,260
really need to be briefed on the

844
00:34:12,870 --> 00:34:10,480
intricacies of the entire alien presence

845
00:34:13,830 --> 00:34:12,880
maybe you do but maybe you don't you

846
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:13,840
would think it would be more

847
00:34:18,030 --> 00:34:16,330
compartmentalized yeah but you could

848
00:34:19,710 --> 00:34:18,040
make the argument that maybe was shown

849
00:34:21,690 --> 00:34:19,720
those documents to reinforce the idea

850
00:34:24,419 --> 00:34:21,700
that the Crescent were held there were

851
00:34:25,889 --> 00:34:24,429
alien when maybe they weren't you know I

852
00:34:29,129 --> 00:34:25,899
mean one of the things that we do know

853
00:34:31,770 --> 00:34:29,139
is that in the exact same timeframe that

854
00:34:33,149 --> 00:34:31,780
Lazar was at area 51 an official files

855
00:34:34,889 --> 00:34:33,159
that have surfaced through the Freedom

856
00:34:38,669 --> 00:34:34,899
of Information Act actually reflect this

857
00:34:40,590 --> 00:34:38,679
both the CIA and the Air Force's OSI the

858
00:34:42,210 --> 00:34:40,600
Office of Special Investigations were

859
00:34:44,580 --> 00:34:42,220
deeply worried that certain UFO

860
00:34:48,270 --> 00:34:44,590
researchers in the US had been targeted

861
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:48,280
by the Russians to unwittingly sort of

862
00:34:53,250 --> 00:34:51,010
uncover classified information on super

863
00:34:55,740 --> 00:34:53,260
secret aircraft programs but using their

864
00:34:57,119 --> 00:34:55,750
sort of UFO research to do so sort of

865
00:34:59,280 --> 00:34:57,129
like a dangling carrot where the

866
00:35:01,530 --> 00:34:59,290
Russians would say you know go look for

867
00:35:03,630 --> 00:35:01,540
some sort of latest stealth moves and

868
00:35:06,030 --> 00:35:03,640
we'll give you a few tips of the KGB's

869
00:35:08,610 --> 00:35:06,040
UFO secrets you know which themselves

870
00:35:11,490 --> 00:35:08,620
might be even fabricated so in other

871
00:35:14,190 --> 00:35:11,500
words we know that this was going on the

872
00:35:16,770 --> 00:35:14,200
Russians were trying to penetrate US

873
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:16,780
military aircraft programs and in some

874
00:35:21,510 --> 00:35:19,090
cases we're trying to use UFO

875
00:35:25,470 --> 00:35:21,520
researchers to do so in the time frame

876
00:35:26,820 --> 00:35:25,480
when Lazar said UFOs were area 51 so one

877
00:35:29,490 --> 00:35:26,830
of the things I point out in the book

878
00:35:31,590 --> 00:35:29,500
maybe you know Lazar was sort of like

879
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:31,600
the biggest Patsy since we are the

880
00:35:37,710 --> 00:35:34,570
oswald and genuinely believed the things

881
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:37,720
he saw early 51 were alien but you know

882
00:35:42,510 --> 00:35:40,210
let's take the hypothesis maybe that's

883
00:35:44,550 --> 00:35:42,520
when he was there he saw the craft and

884
00:35:48,090 --> 00:35:44,560
then went public started talking about

885
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:48,100
it and all that area 51 security people

886
00:35:51,780 --> 00:35:49,810
have to do is wait for some guy like

887
00:35:53,700 --> 00:35:51,790
named Boris or Ivan to start wandering

888
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:53,710
around the base or asking questions in

889
00:35:58,410 --> 00:35:55,690
Las Vegas you know which is a million

890
00:36:00,299 --> 00:35:58,420
miles away and then moving and arrest

891
00:36:03,059 --> 00:36:00,309
them and at the end of the day they've

892
00:36:05,460 --> 00:36:03,069
arrested a spy who is sort of drawn into

893
00:36:08,069 --> 00:36:05,470
the web of looking for classified

894
00:36:10,500 --> 00:36:08,079
military programs by a UFO smokescreen

895
00:36:12,390 --> 00:36:10,510
and more importantly no real secrets

896
00:36:14,130 --> 00:36:12,400
have actually been revealed

897
00:36:17,010 --> 00:36:14,140
you know it's everything's being hidden

898
00:36:19,230 --> 00:36:17,020
under this UFO banner and Ivan and Boris

899
00:36:20,849 --> 00:36:19,240
are safely behind bars somewhere so

900
00:36:22,260 --> 00:36:20,859
you're saying there's a real good

901
00:36:24,599 --> 00:36:22,270
possibility this could have actually

902
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:24,609
been a very very elaborate and

903
00:36:30,900 --> 00:36:27,450
well-thought-out counterintelligence

904
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:30,910
agenda yes you know that doesn't take

905
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:32,530
away the possibility the you know that

906
00:36:37,470 --> 00:36:34,450
is part of the story could be actually

907
00:36:40,380 --> 00:36:37,480
real we have agendas we have to follow

908
00:36:50,910 --> 00:36:40,390
with Gene and Chris you're in the para

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I guess I wasn't too but it's the first

1009
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time I've practiced it since I was last

1010
00:41:19,900 --> 00:41:18,140
on the show I don't I don't actually sit

1011
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:19,910
at home doing that every time every 10

1012
00:41:24,190 --> 00:41:21,770
minutes that's the secret of the great

1013
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laugh from Nick read for an author of

1014
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keep out and the expert the one who

1015
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creates laughter for the power cast with

1016
00:41:34,720 --> 00:41:32,420
Gene and Chris just before we go away

1017
00:41:38,290 --> 00:41:34,730
from Bob Lazar and conspiracies in area

1018
00:41:39,370 --> 00:41:38,300
51 there's a story I read and as I guess

1019
00:41:40,059 --> 00:41:39,380
will be the last thing we talk about

1020
00:41:43,030 --> 00:41:40,069
area 51

1021
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:43,040
it's from Leif Spiegel over at the

1022
00:41:49,150 --> 00:41:45,290
Huffington Post and I'll quote the

1023
00:41:52,839 --> 00:41:49,160
headline area 51 personnel feel betrayed

1024
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:52,849
by Annie Jacobson Soviet Nazi UFO

1025
00:41:58,300 --> 00:41:55,130
connection that's part of her area 51

1026
00:42:01,030 --> 00:41:58,310
book you know where the book itself was

1027
00:42:04,030 --> 00:42:01,040
just coverage of what area 51 is and

1028
00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:04,040
what's going on but she had to get a UFO

1029
00:42:09,430 --> 00:42:07,250
Roswell Nazi connection what's your take

1030
00:42:12,579 --> 00:42:09,440
on that well yeah I mean this is a

1031
00:42:14,740 --> 00:42:12,589
really weird story and what's ironic is

1032
00:42:17,770 --> 00:42:14,750
that you know when when Annie Jacobson's

1033
00:42:20,050 --> 00:42:17,780
book came out you know it was the area

1034
00:42:22,450 --> 00:42:20,060
51 time with Roswell that really caught

1035
00:42:24,099 --> 00:42:22,460
the media's attention you know they I

1036
00:42:25,660 --> 00:42:24,109
won't say they have they didn't talk

1037
00:42:27,849 --> 00:42:25,670
about the rest of the book you know to a

1038
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:27,859
degree they did but you know it seems

1039
00:42:31,690 --> 00:42:29,690
that the Roswell thing was the one more

1040
00:42:33,819 --> 00:42:31,700
than any other that really got people's

1041
00:42:35,710 --> 00:42:33,829
attention now you know they've been a

1042
00:42:38,230 --> 00:42:35,720
lot of different theories put forward

1043
00:42:40,140 --> 00:42:38,240
for Roswell I would have to say that

1044
00:42:43,660 --> 00:42:40,150
this one without doubt is the most

1045
00:42:47,170 --> 00:42:43,670
controversial because to me just doesn't

1046
00:42:49,180 --> 00:42:47,180
hang together and I'll tell you why you

1047
00:42:51,910 --> 00:42:49,190
know in her story the idea was that the

1048
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:51,920
Russians basically were behind Roswell

1049
00:42:55,690 --> 00:42:53,690
and it was some sort of like a War of

1050
00:42:58,990 --> 00:42:55,700
the Worlds type hoax where they would

1051
00:43:00,849 --> 00:42:59,000
stage like a UFO landing in the US you

1052
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:00,859
know with aliens you know coming out of

1053
00:43:05,170 --> 00:43:03,290
the craft and basically you know send

1054
00:43:07,510 --> 00:43:05,180
America into a state of panic that the

1055
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:07,520
aliens had arrived and the UFO invasion

1056
00:43:12,550 --> 00:43:10,130
was beginning you know that the idea in

1057
00:43:14,890 --> 00:43:12,560
the scenario of fabricating an alien

1058
00:43:15,730 --> 00:43:14,900
attack to sort of you know to create

1059
00:43:17,230 --> 00:43:15,740
fear or to

1060
00:43:19,390 --> 00:43:17,240
still a new world order you know he's

1061
00:43:21,250 --> 00:43:19,400
kind of an intriguing and an interesting

1062
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:21,260
one but you know the story that was

1063
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:23,690
Annie Jackson was told he's very very

1064
00:43:28,450 --> 00:43:26,090
different she was told the Starling

1065
00:43:31,510 --> 00:43:28,460
Joseph Stalin the Soviet premier at the

1066
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:31,520
time was in cahoots with Joseph Mengele

1067
00:43:36,970 --> 00:43:35,090
the infamous Nazi doctor who did all

1068
00:43:39,100 --> 00:43:36,980
sorts of you know sort of terrible

1069
00:43:41,350 --> 00:43:39,110
medical experiments on people and very

1070
00:43:44,830 --> 00:43:41,360
often on children as well and the story

1071
00:43:46,630 --> 00:43:44,840
was the Bengal a were mutated it's

1072
00:43:49,060 --> 00:43:46,640
probably the best way to describe it a

1073
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:49,070
number of young children and the idea

1074
00:43:54,010 --> 00:43:51,770
was that they were loaded into an

1075
00:43:55,660 --> 00:43:54,020
aircraft based on the designs of the

1076
00:43:58,120 --> 00:43:55,670
Horton brothers who built these sort of

1077
00:44:01,240 --> 00:43:58,130
swept-wing glider type aircraft back in

1078
00:44:03,340 --> 00:44:01,250
the in the 40s of its of analysis and

1079
00:44:05,260 --> 00:44:03,350
the idea was that the craft was flown to

1080
00:44:07,050 --> 00:44:05,270
the United States and it would land in a

1081
00:44:09,670 --> 00:44:07,060
populated area and you know these

1082
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:09,680
deformed mutated children would get out

1083
00:44:15,100 --> 00:44:12,410
and people believed aliens had landed

1084
00:44:18,010 --> 00:44:15,110
the stories made bizarre for several

1085
00:44:20,530 --> 00:44:18,020
reasons one mangal a you know we know

1086
00:44:22,390 --> 00:44:20,540
had fled to South America you know he

1087
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:22,400
wasn't in Russia he wasn't even in

1088
00:44:27,730 --> 00:44:26,090
Germany in 47 the other thing is that

1089
00:44:30,550 --> 00:44:27,740
again through the Freedom of Information

1090
00:44:33,370 --> 00:44:30,560
Act we have literally hundreds and

1091
00:44:35,230 --> 00:44:33,380
hundreds of pages of files from the mid

1092
00:44:36,609 --> 00:44:35,240
forties onwards from the US Air Force

1093
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:36,619
and the Army where they've been

1094
00:44:42,550 --> 00:44:40,010
analyzing captured Hort and brother

1095
00:44:44,530 --> 00:44:42,560
aircraft and you know analyzing the data

1096
00:44:46,390 --> 00:44:44,540
and photographs so in other words it

1097
00:44:48,910 --> 00:44:46,400
would take nobody any time at all to

1098
00:44:50,859 --> 00:44:48,920
realize that this is one of the horde

1099
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:50,869
and brothers craft that it wasn't an

1100
00:44:53,980 --> 00:44:51,890
alien spacecraft

1101
00:44:56,410 --> 00:44:53,990
you know the idea of it landing in the

1102
00:44:58,300 --> 00:44:56,420
u.s. an aircraft wouldn't need tires you

1103
00:45:00,430 --> 00:44:58,310
know it would take no diff no time at

1104
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:00,440
all to realize that this is just made

1105
00:45:06,340 --> 00:45:03,170
purely terrestrial materials and also

1106
00:45:09,010 --> 00:45:06,350
you know I um the idea of whether people

1107
00:45:11,410 --> 00:45:09,020
could be biologically mutated back in

1108
00:45:13,330 --> 00:45:11,420
the nineteen forties to any extent to

1109
00:45:15,130 --> 00:45:13,340
where you know not only would they look

1110
00:45:17,740 --> 00:45:15,140
alien but they would actually be able to

1111
00:45:21,609 --> 00:45:17,750
sort of live and exist and you know move

1112
00:45:24,340 --> 00:45:21,619
around etc you know so I think again I

1113
00:45:26,950 --> 00:45:24,350
speculate and wonder if somebody on the

1114
00:45:28,660 --> 00:45:26,960
inside was concerned that Jacobson was

1115
00:45:29,590 --> 00:45:28,670
writing a book about area 51 that would

1116
00:45:32,020 --> 00:45:29,600
be a big

1117
00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:32,030
suppose a so what do we do well let's

1118
00:45:36,730 --> 00:45:34,160
try and you know discredit it by putting

1119
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:36,740
out a really outrageous story that's you

1120
00:45:42,190 --> 00:45:39,650
know gonna basically get everybody's

1121
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:42,200
attention but by default make it just

1122
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:44,690
another UFO book rather than as some

1123
00:45:49,390 --> 00:45:46,130
people may have worried a definitive

1124
00:45:52,030 --> 00:45:49,400
study of area 51 well at this point do

1125
00:45:54,820 --> 00:45:52,040
we think that maybe Annie Jacobson was

1126
00:45:59,590 --> 00:45:54,830
thrown this line of stuff just to make

1127
00:46:01,240 --> 00:45:59,600
the book be more attention amp it may

1128
00:46:02,620 --> 00:46:01,250
have been to gain more attention but I

1129
00:46:05,230 --> 00:46:02,630
don't think from the perspective of

1130
00:46:08,020 --> 00:46:05,240
selling copies I think it may be the

1131
00:46:10,450 --> 00:46:08,030
people on the inside may have been

1132
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:10,460
anticipating and hoping that the

1133
00:46:15,100 --> 00:46:12,050
response would be exactly what I just

1134
00:46:17,590 --> 00:46:15,110
said about how the story you know of

1135
00:46:19,510 --> 00:46:17,600
manga age and and styling just doesn't

1136
00:46:22,930 --> 00:46:19,520
work you know he just

1137
00:46:25,990 --> 00:46:22,940
it is not credible so maybe the hope was

1138
00:46:27,940 --> 00:46:26,000
that by pointing that out then that will

1139
00:46:29,230 --> 00:46:27,950
by default make people question the rest

1140
00:46:31,630 --> 00:46:29,240
of the book you know they couldn't stop

1141
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:31,640
the publication of the book well you

1142
00:46:35,230 --> 00:46:32,930
know let's put something in there that's

1143
00:46:38,860 --> 00:46:35,240
gonna like a she's going to accept and

1144
00:46:40,660 --> 00:46:38,870
publish and then you know over time

1145
00:46:42,220 --> 00:46:40,670
it'll come to discredit the rest of the

1146
00:46:44,050 --> 00:46:42,230
book which you know actually does

1147
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:44,060
contain a lot of good information so

1148
00:46:48,910 --> 00:46:46,610
that takes us from area 51 to the next

1149
00:46:52,030 --> 00:46:48,920
topic and Chris and I were joking before

1150
00:46:54,730 --> 00:46:52,040
you came on about subway systems around

1151
00:46:57,460 --> 00:46:54,740
the world these underground labyrinths

1152
00:46:59,140 --> 00:46:57,470
of unknown happenings I was thinking

1153
00:47:01,690 --> 00:46:59,150
about New York I grew up in New York I

1154
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:01,700
lived virtually on the subways when I

1155
00:47:07,210 --> 00:47:05,210
wanted to skip class I just got a subway

1156
00:47:08,530 --> 00:47:07,220
ride you know I go from one end of New

1157
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:08,540
York City to the other now you know my

1158
00:47:13,450 --> 00:47:10,970
secrets ladies and gentlemen but you're

1159
00:47:16,720 --> 00:47:13,460
talking mostly about I guess a system

1160
00:47:19,420 --> 00:47:16,730
that's pretty old itself the underground

1161
00:47:21,460 --> 00:47:19,430
or subway system in London and tell us

1162
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:21,470
more about it well yeah I mean the

1163
00:47:26,050 --> 00:47:24,410
London Underground you know he's the one

1164
00:47:28,150 --> 00:47:26,060
sort of mode of transport that pretty

1165
00:47:29,590 --> 00:47:28,160
much everybody uses in London you know

1166
00:47:30,970 --> 00:47:29,600
sort of driving around London's

1167
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:30,980
pointlessly you know you can you're

1168
00:47:35,110 --> 00:47:32,330
never going to get anywhere because it's

1169
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:35,120
that much congestion so everybody just

1170
00:47:40,060 --> 00:47:37,130
uses the tube and you know there's a

1171
00:47:41,830 --> 00:47:40,070
whole range of lines and tunnels etc a

1172
00:47:43,220 --> 00:47:41,840
lot of people don't realize that the

1173
00:47:48,349 --> 00:47:43,230
London Underground

1174
00:47:50,620 --> 00:47:48,359
was first opened in 1863 is basically

1175
00:47:53,809 --> 00:47:50,630
although it's you know it's like an open

1176
00:47:55,670 --> 00:47:53,819
tube system full of trains etc there's a

1177
00:47:59,210 --> 00:47:55,680
lot of secrecy attached to it for

1178
00:48:00,980 --> 00:47:59,220
example during the Second World War when

1179
00:48:02,930 --> 00:48:00,990
the Nazis were sort of on a nightly

1180
00:48:05,510 --> 00:48:02,940
basis bombing London June what was

1181
00:48:07,039 --> 00:48:05,520
called the Blitz people who were living

1182
00:48:09,740 --> 00:48:07,049
in London you know and the sirens would

1183
00:48:11,690 --> 00:48:09,750
go off everybody would head down to the

1184
00:48:14,750 --> 00:48:11,700
the tubes to the tunnels because they

1185
00:48:16,220 --> 00:48:14,760
were very deep underground and you know

1186
00:48:18,529 --> 00:48:16,230
they gave a lot of protection from

1187
00:48:20,539 --> 00:48:18,539
Hitler's bombings every night and you

1188
00:48:21,799 --> 00:48:20,549
know this was sort of like a plan that

1189
00:48:23,900 --> 00:48:21,809
the governments itself the British

1190
00:48:25,309 --> 00:48:23,910
government organized you know for where

1191
00:48:27,349 --> 00:48:25,319
the tracks would be closed and people

1192
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:27,359
could bring like sleeping bags and

1193
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:29,010
pillows down you know and just sort of

1194
00:48:33,799 --> 00:48:31,410
sleep through or survive at least the

1195
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:33,809
nightly blitzes and you know get some

1196
00:48:38,779 --> 00:48:35,970
sort of protection we also know that

1197
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:38,789
also during the Second World War that

1198
00:48:43,069 --> 00:48:40,890
the prime minister at the time Winston

1199
00:48:45,260 --> 00:48:43,079
Churchill he used what was called the

1200
00:48:48,140 --> 00:48:45,270
down street station where he had a

1201
00:48:49,700 --> 00:48:48,150
secret office deep underground again to

1202
00:48:51,859 --> 00:48:49,710
sort of survive these nightly attacks

1203
00:48:54,019 --> 00:48:51,869
from the Germans so in other words you

1204
00:48:56,690 --> 00:48:54,029
know what seems like an innocuous normal

1205
00:48:59,450 --> 00:48:56,700
tunnel system for trains etc is actually

1206
00:49:02,150 --> 00:48:59,460
something quite different now there are

1207
00:49:03,980 --> 00:49:02,160
also a lot of other weird stories not

1208
00:49:06,799 --> 00:49:03,990
just of a UFO nature but more of like a

1209
00:49:08,269 --> 00:49:06,809
forty in nature as well coming from the

1210
00:49:11,299 --> 00:49:08,279
London Underground there's a

1211
00:49:13,130 --> 00:49:11,309
long-standing story about some sort of

1212
00:49:14,839 --> 00:49:13,140
deep underground chamber where

1213
00:49:17,599 --> 00:49:14,849
supposedly a crashed UFO and alien

1214
00:49:18,980 --> 00:49:17,609
bodies are held now even I admit some of

1215
00:49:20,569 --> 00:49:18,990
these stories you know the kind of

1216
00:49:23,240 --> 00:49:20,579
friend of a friend like and they're sort

1217
00:49:24,529 --> 00:49:23,250
of the classic hangar 18 type things

1218
00:49:26,089 --> 00:49:24,539
where somebody goes through a wrong

1219
00:49:28,430 --> 00:49:26,099
doorway and you know goes to an

1220
00:49:30,589 --> 00:49:28,440
off-limits area and sees these weird

1221
00:49:32,870 --> 00:49:30,599
little bodies in frozen cryogenic

1222
00:49:35,720 --> 00:49:32,880
storage so but the stories do exist

1223
00:49:38,089 --> 00:49:35,730
they're even weirder ones than that

1224
00:49:40,220 --> 00:49:38,099
where people have said you know they saw

1225
00:49:42,769 --> 00:49:40,230
sort of spectral almost bigfoot-type

1226
00:49:44,839 --> 00:49:42,779
creatures deep in the tunnel sort of

1227
00:49:47,990 --> 00:49:44,849
spectrally coming through the old walls

1228
00:49:50,779 --> 00:49:48,000
and things like this and you know it's

1229
00:49:52,240 --> 00:49:50,789
difficult to sort of reconcile this

1230
00:49:54,260 --> 00:49:52,250
story you know I write a lot about

1231
00:49:56,839 --> 00:49:54,270
cryptozoology as well and some of these

1232
00:49:59,900 --> 00:49:56,849
stories fit more into that category then

1233
00:50:01,579 --> 00:49:59,910
ufology or anything conspiratorial so

1234
00:50:03,769 --> 00:50:01,589
that we assume like the place like the

1235
00:50:06,469 --> 00:50:03,779
London Underground has dimensional

1236
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:06,479
portals perhaps yeah well you know I

1237
00:50:10,069 --> 00:50:08,249
mean that's getting into sort of another

1238
00:50:11,390 --> 00:50:10,079
realm but I mean you know when you've

1239
00:50:14,660 --> 00:50:11,400
got sort of four or five different

1240
00:50:16,489 --> 00:50:14,670
issues all focused on this one location

1241
00:50:19,069 --> 00:50:16,499
you know you do sort of have to question

1242
00:50:20,809 --> 00:50:19,079
whether or not there's something more

1243
00:50:22,910 --> 00:50:20,819
significant about it you know people

1244
00:50:25,690 --> 00:50:22,920
talk about sort of portals and doorways

1245
00:50:28,009 --> 00:50:25,700
and different parts of the world I mean

1246
00:50:29,839 --> 00:50:28,019
it's difficult to know you know London's

1247
00:50:31,759 --> 00:50:29,849
an ancient city you know it's its

1248
00:50:35,569 --> 00:50:31,769
founding father sort of go back you know

1249
00:50:36,950 --> 00:50:35,579
to the Roman times even so you know in

1250
00:50:39,769 --> 00:50:36,960
that respect who knows what sort of

1251
00:50:41,390 --> 00:50:39,779
secrets exist under London but but it is

1252
00:50:43,190 --> 00:50:41,400
intriguing you know the more you dig

1253
00:50:45,380 --> 00:50:43,200
into the stories of the London

1254
00:50:48,319 --> 00:50:45,390
Underground you find tales of closed

1255
00:50:49,329 --> 00:50:48,329
down tunnels and stations you know that

1256
00:50:51,979 --> 00:50:49,339
are now off-limits

1257
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:51,989
where over the years you know the

1258
00:50:55,279 --> 00:50:52,890
tunnels have gone in different

1259
00:50:57,739 --> 00:50:55,289
directions and the old tunnels just

1260
00:50:59,239 --> 00:50:57,749
remain closed to the public and you know

1261
00:51:01,339 --> 00:50:59,249
this bump there are bunkers under there

1262
00:51:03,289 --> 00:51:01,349
for the government and you know these

1263
00:51:05,870 --> 00:51:03,299
stories about weird there's a lot of

1264
00:51:07,759 --> 00:51:05,880
weird stories that big cats being seen

1265
00:51:09,229 --> 00:51:07,769
in the London Underground kind of

1266
00:51:11,539 --> 00:51:09,239
similar to the alligators in the sewer

1267
00:51:13,579 --> 00:51:11,549
stories from New York and again you know

1268
00:51:17,509 --> 00:51:13,589
it's kind of like where does the legend

1269
00:51:18,979 --> 00:51:17,519
begin and the facts and so to speak well

1270
00:51:20,660 --> 00:51:18,989
getting to that in a moment but I guess

1271
00:51:23,329 --> 00:51:20,670
the big question would be here any time

1272
00:51:26,479 --> 00:51:23,339
you have this network of underground

1273
00:51:29,029 --> 00:51:26,489
tunnels or caverns weird stuff's gonna

1274
00:51:30,829 --> 00:51:29,039
be down there inevitable with Nick read

1275
00:51:36,950 --> 00:51:30,839
for an offer of keep out your with gene

1276
00:51:41,980 --> 00:51:38,400
[Music]

1277
00:51:45,190 --> 00:51:41,990
the GC and radio network providing the

1278
00:51:50,020 --> 00:51:45,200
world with hard-hitting talk radio G C

1279
00:51:51,490 --> 00:51:50,030
and great talk radio starts here hi Ted

1280
00:51:53,710 --> 00:51:51,500
Anderson announcing a great way to

1281
00:51:55,900 --> 00:51:53,720
listen to radio on the telephone by

1282
00:51:57,970 --> 00:51:55,910
calling seven six oh five six nine

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00:52:00,550 --> 00:51:57,980
seventy seven hundred you'll be hearing

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juicy and live comm programs in seconds

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come to GC and live.com find your

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00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:05,390
favorite host dedicated phone number and

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hear them 24/7 you heard me right every

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show has a dedicated phone number stop

1289
00:52:15,730 --> 00:52:13,430
by GC and live.com and bookmark their

1290
00:52:18,180 --> 00:52:15,740
number today and again that's seven six

1291
00:52:20,830 --> 00:52:18,190
oh five six nine seventy seven hundred

1292
00:52:22,930 --> 00:52:20,840
we the people grow cotton wheat fabric

1293
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engraving can bed strips and fibers to

1294
00:52:26,290 --> 00:52:24,530
protect from counterfeit than carding to

1295
00:52:26,740 --> 00:52:26,300
a private bank having a led back at

1296
00:52:28,540 --> 00:52:26,750
interest

1297
00:52:30,370 --> 00:52:28,550
forcing taxes to surfaced at this

1298
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:30,380
capitalism or was Jefferson correct when

1299
00:52:33,460 --> 00:52:31,850
stating a central bank issuing the

1300
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:33,470
public currency is a greater menace to

1301
00:52:35,980 --> 00:52:34,610
the liberties of the people than a

1302
00:52:37,390 --> 00:52:35,990
standing army today understand I'm

1303
00:52:39,220 --> 00:52:37,400
placing a free silver dollar in a book

1304
00:52:42,670 --> 00:52:39,230
that explains our monetary system call

1305
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:42,680
for your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time

1306
00:52:49,190 --> 00:52:45,890
to understand the system call 866 to 237

1307
00:52:55,310 --> 00:52:49,200
that's 800 686 to 237

1308
00:53:03,320 --> 00:52:59,010
welcome back to the para cast the gold

1309
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:03,330
standard of paranormal radio and now

1310
00:53:12,240 --> 00:53:10,090
here's Jane Steinberg left over from

1311
00:53:14,850 --> 00:53:12,250
Christmas Christmas cheer from Nick

1312
00:53:16,590 --> 00:53:14,860
Redfern author of keep out top secret

1313
00:53:18,720 --> 00:53:16,600
places governments don't want you to

1314
00:53:21,090 --> 00:53:18,730
know about and we're focusing on the

1315
00:53:23,670 --> 00:53:21,100
London Underground of course you have

1316
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:23,680
those great classic subways over there

1317
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:26,530
mysterious cats tell us more well yeah I

1318
00:53:29,670 --> 00:53:28,090
mean one of the people I interviewed for

1319
00:53:33,090 --> 00:53:29,680
the book was a woman who back in the

1320
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:33,100
1950s late one night was standing on one

1321
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:35,650
of the platforms and bear in mind there

1322
00:53:38,820 --> 00:53:37,330
you know literally dozens and dozens of

1323
00:53:40,620 --> 00:53:38,830
platforms all across the underground

1324
00:53:42,660 --> 00:53:40,630
nobody else there at the time and she

1325
00:53:45,420 --> 00:53:42,670
said she saw this which basically she

1326
00:53:47,430 --> 00:53:45,430
described as a large black panther which

1327
00:53:50,220 --> 00:53:47,440
is sort of a misnomer they're basically

1328
00:53:52,650 --> 00:53:50,230
melanistic big cats lacking in pigment

1329
00:53:54,510 --> 00:53:52,660
and actually isn't a creature called a

1330
00:53:56,070 --> 00:53:54,520
black panther it's just like a popular

1331
00:53:58,440 --> 00:53:56,080
culture term but anyway she saw this

1332
00:53:59,910 --> 00:53:58,450
large black cat which he said was sort

1333
00:54:02,340 --> 00:53:59,920
of prowling along the tracks and

1334
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:02,350
basically gave the sort of this weirdly

1335
00:54:06,690 --> 00:54:04,450
intent glare as if it was almost sort of

1336
00:54:08,430 --> 00:54:06,700
born into a soul you know it's a very

1337
00:54:11,010 --> 00:54:08,440
very strange experience almost like a

1338
00:54:13,020 --> 00:54:11,020
paranormal experience than just seeing

1339
00:54:14,550 --> 00:54:13,030
you know an exotic large cat that it

1340
00:54:16,740 --> 00:54:14,560
escaped from a zoo or something like

1341
00:54:19,020 --> 00:54:16,750
that and it was sort of taken to a a

1342
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:19,030
weird a level where she claimed that a

1343
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:21,130
few days later somebody knocked on the

1344
00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:22,810
front door claiming to be from the

1345
00:54:26,370 --> 00:54:24,730
government and suggested to her it'd be

1346
00:54:28,500 --> 00:54:26,380
good idea if she didn't talk about this

1347
00:54:30,630 --> 00:54:28,510
which again as sort of classic men in

1348
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:30,640
black overtones to it although she said

1349
00:54:33,930 --> 00:54:32,050
there was no threat and she said that

1350
00:54:36,150 --> 00:54:33,940
the guy and her actually sat by the

1351
00:54:38,700 --> 00:54:36,160
fireplace drinking tea as he told her

1352
00:54:40,590 --> 00:54:38,710
not to talk about this but in kind of

1353
00:54:43,650 --> 00:54:40,600
friendly tones but he does have that MIB

1354
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:43,660
flavor to it and actually several

1355
00:54:47,910 --> 00:54:45,490
reports like this particularly from some

1356
00:54:50,130 --> 00:54:47,920
of the deeper tunnels of people seeing

1357
00:54:52,530 --> 00:54:50,140
what they described was what large black

1358
00:54:55,260 --> 00:54:52,540
cats larger than a house cat obviously

1359
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:55,270
and bordering on like an exotic cat and

1360
00:54:59,010 --> 00:54:57,010
who knows you know maybe some of these

1361
00:55:01,410 --> 00:54:59,020
Britain has a lot of reports every year

1362
00:55:03,630 --> 00:55:01,420
of large black cats on the loose who

1363
00:55:05,340 --> 00:55:03,640
knows maybe deep in some of the lower

1364
00:55:07,500 --> 00:55:05,350
levels you know some of these animals

1365
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:07,510
have bred and thrived and you know

1366
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:08,650
surviving on what

1367
00:55:13,319 --> 00:55:10,210
I was down there whether it's sort of

1368
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:13,329
discarded burgers or the occasional hobo

1369
00:55:17,039 --> 00:55:15,010
who knows well you know it's very

1370
00:55:20,700 --> 00:55:17,049
interesting here when you get a place

1371
00:55:23,579 --> 00:55:20,710
like that underground not access to

1372
00:55:25,500 --> 00:55:23,589
every nook and cranny isn't it basically

1373
00:55:27,750 --> 00:55:25,510
part of the problem that you're gonna

1374
00:55:28,980 --> 00:55:27,760
have strange animals and stuff like that

1375
00:55:31,650 --> 00:55:28,990
they're just going to get down there and

1376
00:55:33,329 --> 00:55:31,660
find it comfortable well yeah I mean I

1377
00:55:35,190 --> 00:55:33,339
think that's very true and I think you

1378
00:55:38,250 --> 00:55:35,200
know the important thing to note is that

1379
00:55:40,589 --> 00:55:38,260
you know the London Underground affords

1380
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:40,599
a lot of cover of protection darkness

1381
00:55:44,069 --> 00:55:42,970
safety for any sort of predators that

1382
00:55:46,019 --> 00:55:44,079
might want to live there but more

1383
00:55:47,789 --> 00:55:46,029
importantly you know because there's a

1384
00:55:49,410 --> 00:55:47,799
lot of people down there as I said

1385
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:49,420
there's food being thrown around all

1386
00:55:52,500 --> 00:55:50,890
over the place you know people are just

1387
00:55:54,990 --> 00:55:52,510
dumping a bit of a burger on the tracks

1388
00:55:57,029 --> 00:55:55,000
or whatever or just drop in something so

1389
00:55:58,859 --> 00:55:57,039
in other words you know you've got a

1390
00:56:01,769 --> 00:55:58,869
safe haven with a lot of protection a

1391
00:56:03,690 --> 00:56:01,779
lot of winding tunnels tunnels where the

1392
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:03,700
average person can't go and lot of the

1393
00:56:08,130 --> 00:56:06,130
old closed down ones so it would be the

1394
00:56:10,710 --> 00:56:08,140
ideal place like wild animals that

1395
00:56:12,529 --> 00:56:10,720
really number one want to cover in the

1396
00:56:15,089 --> 00:56:12,539
darkness and the safety but number two

1397
00:56:16,769 --> 00:56:15,099
arguably need a human presence you know

1398
00:56:19,079 --> 00:56:16,779
which they can sort of live off all the

1399
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:19,089
rich pickings that we dumped so to speak

1400
00:56:22,410 --> 00:56:20,890
let's look at some other strange places

1401
00:56:25,140 --> 00:56:22,420
here because there are so many in the

1402
00:56:27,870 --> 00:56:25,150
book covers a whole host of them and I

1403
00:56:30,359 --> 00:56:27,880
guess the best thing to do is also look

1404
00:56:32,010 --> 00:56:30,369
at that other famous underground place

1405
00:56:33,510 --> 00:56:32,020
that we all talk about oh I don't know

1406
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:33,520
how much we've talked about it here on

1407
00:56:37,859 --> 00:56:36,130
the para caste Dulce New Mexico

1408
00:56:40,589 --> 00:56:37,869
what's the been around well yeah I mean

1409
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:40,599
the Dulce stories without doubts you

1410
00:56:43,950 --> 00:56:41,890
know one of the most controversial

1411
00:56:46,349 --> 00:56:43,960
probably in many respects even more

1412
00:56:49,380 --> 00:56:46,359
controversial than the story of area 51

1413
00:56:51,870 --> 00:56:49,390
you know most of the installations

1414
00:56:53,970 --> 00:56:51,880
almost exclusively all the installations

1415
00:56:55,559 --> 00:56:53,980
I talk about in the book or at least

1416
00:56:57,660 --> 00:56:55,569
under the control of the government

1417
00:56:59,640 --> 00:56:57,670
according to sort of youthful logical

1418
00:57:01,440 --> 00:56:59,650
rumor and legend the Dulce base is

1419
00:57:02,519 --> 00:57:01,450
actually out of the hands of the

1420
00:57:05,220 --> 00:57:02,529
government or the government had lost

1421
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:05,230
control of the base and it's now under

1422
00:57:11,519 --> 00:57:08,770
the control of hostile aliens now Dulce

1423
00:57:13,319 --> 00:57:11,529
is a base or an alleged base I should

1424
00:57:15,269 --> 00:57:13,329
say in the term of Dulce New Mexico

1425
00:57:17,940 --> 00:57:15,279
hence the name which is in the northern

1426
00:57:20,370 --> 00:57:17,950
part of the state for years people have

1427
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:20,380
come forward unfortunately for the most

1428
00:57:24,870 --> 00:57:22,210
part using pseudonyms or

1429
00:57:27,450 --> 00:57:24,880
Lia's etc but still claiming that you

1430
00:57:29,849 --> 00:57:27,460
know this huge installation exists below

1431
00:57:32,220 --> 00:57:29,859
this Mesa this huge mace of it the mace

1432
00:57:35,300 --> 00:57:32,230
is undeniably real in the town of Dulce

1433
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:35,310
but people talk about this gigantic

1434
00:57:40,770 --> 00:57:38,290
facility extending down for you know a

1435
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:40,780
number of levels multi levels below the

1436
00:57:45,750 --> 00:57:43,690
Mesa where hostile aliens are doing

1437
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:45,760
everything from sort of biological

1438
00:57:51,450 --> 00:57:48,690
warfare experiments - you know bizarre

1439
00:57:53,940 --> 00:57:51,460
genetic and gene splicing programs

1440
00:57:56,099 --> 00:57:53,950
splicing humans with other animals and

1441
00:57:58,070 --> 00:57:56,109
people are kidnapped and used for food

1442
00:58:00,599 --> 00:57:58,080
and it sounds like you know the ultimate

1443
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:00,609
conspiracy sci-fi thriller which you

1444
00:58:03,510 --> 00:58:01,930
probably would make and I think there

1445
00:58:05,579 --> 00:58:03,520
are actually heard somewhere that a

1446
00:58:07,109 --> 00:58:05,589
movie is going to be made about Dulce so

1447
00:58:08,700 --> 00:58:07,119
I'm sure it may cover some of these

1448
00:58:10,109 --> 00:58:08,710
issues but you know there's a big

1449
00:58:11,970 --> 00:58:10,119
difference between what we know is

1450
00:58:13,829 --> 00:58:11,980
science fiction or what may be science

1451
00:58:16,829 --> 00:58:13,839
fiction and science facts and rumor here

1452
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:16,839
say a verifiable fact now a lot of

1453
00:58:21,990 --> 00:58:19,690
people talk about the dulce base you

1454
00:58:24,450 --> 00:58:22,000
know and and perpetuate these stories

1455
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:24,460
about hostile aliens which you know who

1456
00:58:28,710 --> 00:58:26,770
knows where the truth begins again but

1457
00:58:31,109 --> 00:58:28,720
one of the things I did when I was

1458
00:58:33,359 --> 00:58:31,119
researching the chat sauron Dulce was

1459
00:58:37,050 --> 00:58:33,369
not just a focus on who was saying what

1460
00:58:39,930 --> 00:58:37,060
about what you know in relation to - UFO

1461
00:58:42,990 --> 00:58:39,940
specifically but actually take a look at

1462
00:58:45,150 --> 00:58:43,000
what else was going on in Dulce and look

1463
00:58:48,359 --> 00:58:45,160
at the history of the area and try and

1464
00:58:49,490 --> 00:58:48,369
determine to what extent if any extents

1465
00:58:52,589 --> 00:58:49,500
you know the military or the government

1466
00:58:55,380 --> 00:58:52,599
had been active in the Dulce area and

1467
00:58:58,620 --> 00:58:55,390
the fact of the reality is that there's

1468
00:59:02,099 --> 00:58:58,630
a huge amounts of military and

1469
00:59:04,950 --> 00:59:02,109
government ties to the Dulce area the

1470
00:59:08,990 --> 00:59:04,960
Mesa itself extends more than 9,000 feet

1471
00:59:14,700 --> 00:59:09,000
above sea level in Rio Arriba County and

1472
00:59:17,820 --> 00:59:14,710
this entire area from 1975 to 1979 was a

1473
00:59:21,690 --> 00:59:17,830
literal hotbed for cattle mutilations

1474
00:59:24,150 --> 00:59:21,700
now the FBI is now Declassified all its

1475
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:24,160
cattle mutilation files many of which

1476
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:27,250
cover all these encounters at Dulce and

1477
00:59:31,829 --> 00:59:29,650
when you read the FBI's files on the the

1478
00:59:34,470 --> 00:59:31,839
dhalsim cattle mute you know you find it

1479
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:34,480
reads like sci-fi until you realize you

1480
00:59:38,099 --> 00:59:35,890
know you're looking at genuine

1481
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:38,109
and files I mean they talk about animals

1482
00:59:41,970 --> 00:59:39,250
drained of blood

1483
00:59:44,370 --> 00:59:41,980
weird tripod markings on the ground that

1484
00:59:46,950 --> 00:59:44,380
seem to be following the cattle elevated

1485
00:59:49,349 --> 00:59:46,960
radiation readings cards having been

1486
00:59:52,410 --> 00:59:49,359
taken and the mothers left behind all

1487
00:59:55,980 --> 00:59:52,420
sorts of weird stuff like this and to

1488
00:59:58,349 --> 00:59:55,990
where the FBI even consulted Gabe Valdez

1489
01:00:00,779 --> 00:59:58,359
who was one of the most prominent people

1490
01:00:02,609 --> 01:00:00,789
in the New Mexico State Police

1491
01:00:05,190 --> 01:00:02,619
Department in Dulce at that particular

1492
01:00:07,170 --> 01:00:05,200
time or in the vicinity of dosing so in

1493
01:00:09,420 --> 01:00:07,180
other words we know on first at least

1494
01:00:12,150 --> 01:00:09,430
that there was a wide range of cattle

1495
01:00:14,609 --> 01:00:12,160
mutilations in the very area of where

1496
01:00:16,980 --> 01:00:14,619
the base supposedly exists and what's

1497
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:16,990
interesting is that the existence or the

1498
01:00:22,140 --> 01:00:19,930
story of the base wasn't around you know

1499
01:00:24,420 --> 01:00:22,150
in 1975 nobody was talking about the

1500
01:00:26,819 --> 01:00:24,430
Dulce base then so in other words you

1501
01:00:29,190 --> 01:00:26,829
know people might argue if the story was

1502
01:00:31,140 --> 01:00:29,200
already in circulation then people might

1503
01:00:33,150 --> 01:00:31,150
be just getting all you know hysterical

1504
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:33,160
about somebody's cow dying and

1505
01:00:36,569 --> 01:00:34,930
attributing it to the story of the alien

1506
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:36,579
base but that it wasn't in circulation

1507
01:00:43,349 --> 01:00:39,730
in 75 so in other words the mutilation

1508
01:00:45,150 --> 01:00:43,359
angle predates the base stories the

1509
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:45,160
other thing that's interesting is that

1510
01:00:51,180 --> 01:00:48,250
on the 10th of December 1967 the Atomic

1511
01:00:52,670 --> 01:00:51,190
Energy Commission detonated a 29 kiloton

1512
01:00:55,499 --> 01:00:52,680
nuclear device

1513
01:00:58,319 --> 01:00:55,509
4,000 feet below ground level in the

1514
01:01:00,359 --> 01:00:58,329
area ostensibly at least to sort of

1515
01:01:02,549 --> 01:01:00,369
provoke the release and production of

1516
01:01:05,099 --> 01:01:02,559
natural gas and this is a program known

1517
01:01:06,839 --> 01:01:05,109
as gas buggy which fell under the

1518
01:01:09,359 --> 01:01:06,849
auspices of a bigger program called

1519
01:01:11,970 --> 01:01:09,369
operation plowshare which is basically

1520
01:01:14,279 --> 01:01:11,980
designed to explore the peaceful use of

1521
01:01:16,499 --> 01:01:14,289
atomic energy and what's interesting is

1522
01:01:18,660 --> 01:01:16,509
that the location of the gas bogie test

1523
01:01:20,970 --> 01:01:18,670
when they detonated this atomic device

1524
01:01:23,670 --> 01:01:20,980
way below ground is actually only 12

1525
01:01:25,859 --> 01:01:23,680
miles from Dulce so in other words we

1526
01:01:28,349 --> 01:01:25,869
can prove that there was verifiable

1527
01:01:31,380 --> 01:01:28,359
underground digging and explosions in

1528
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:31,390
the Dulce area back in the 60s we can

1529
01:01:36,690 --> 01:01:33,730
prove the FBI was looking into cattle

1530
01:01:39,839 --> 01:01:36,700
mutilations there in the 70s so you know

1531
01:01:41,759 --> 01:01:39,849
this for me again leaves open the idea

1532
01:01:43,799 --> 01:01:41,769
that there could very well be some sort

1533
01:01:46,049 --> 01:01:43,809
of underground installation in the area

1534
01:01:49,140 --> 01:01:46,059
and to give you another intriguing

1535
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:49,150
little bit of insight as well because of

1536
01:01:52,980 --> 01:01:49,690
these

1537
01:01:55,170 --> 01:01:52,990
this nuclear test in 67 all around Dulce

1538
01:01:58,110 --> 01:01:55,180
now it's actually illegal unless you get

1539
01:02:00,600 --> 01:01:58,120
government permission to dig within the

1540
01:02:02,730 --> 01:02:00,610
near vicinity of where the explosion

1541
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:02,740
took place now on the one hand you could

1542
01:02:06,930 --> 01:02:04,330
argue well you know this is an atomic

1543
01:02:08,670 --> 01:02:06,940
device nobody wants somebody opening up

1544
01:02:10,710 --> 01:02:08,680
the ground you know and releasing

1545
01:02:13,050 --> 01:02:10,720
radioactive elements or whatever which

1546
01:02:14,190 --> 01:02:13,060
is true but on the other hand you know

1547
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:14,200
you could make the argument the

1548
01:02:17,250 --> 01:02:15,370
government doesn't want to speaking

1549
01:02:19,350 --> 01:02:17,260
around there in case anybody stumbles

1550
01:02:22,140 --> 01:02:19,360
upon evidence of the underground

1551
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:22,150
facility you know but whichever scenario

1552
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:24,370
is true it's intriguing that of all the

1553
01:02:28,980 --> 01:02:26,410
locations in the US you know where it's

1554
01:02:31,050 --> 01:02:28,990
illegal to dig underground one of them

1555
01:02:33,090 --> 01:02:31,060
is within 12 miles of the alleged Dulce

1556
01:02:35,820 --> 01:02:33,100
base we have Nick Redfern the book is

1557
01:02:37,410 --> 01:02:35,830
called keep out and many more places

1558
01:02:39,180 --> 01:02:37,420
around the world to explore and a few of

1559
01:02:45,610 --> 01:02:39,190
your questions listeners you're on with

1560
01:02:50,010 --> 01:02:47,360
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calm today we'd like to hear from you if

1637
01:06:58,769 --> 01:06:55,239
you have a comment or question about the

1638
01:07:00,089 --> 01:06:58,779
para cast send it to news at the para

1639
01:07:03,979 --> 01:07:00,099
cast com

1640
01:07:06,449 --> 01:07:03,989
that's news at the para cast dot-com and

1641
01:07:09,329 --> 01:07:06,459
if you'd like to catch up on past

1642
01:07:12,089 --> 01:07:09,339
episodes we have hundreds of shows for

1643
01:07:13,769 --> 01:07:12,099
you to download direct from the para

1644
01:07:18,179 --> 01:07:13,779
cast com

1645
01:07:21,210 --> 01:07:18,189
that's the para cast dot-com or check us

1646
01:07:23,670 --> 01:07:21,220
out at iTunes

1647
01:07:26,069 --> 01:07:23,680
we have the inimitable Nick Redfern

1648
01:07:28,470 --> 01:07:26,079
author of keep out top secret places

1649
01:07:31,410 --> 01:07:28,480
governments don't want you to know about

1650
01:07:33,839 --> 01:07:31,420
there you go any more issues about Dulce

1651
01:07:37,380 --> 01:07:33,849
Before we jump away yeah just a little

1652
01:07:38,430 --> 01:07:37,390
bit couple things Nick speak to you no

1653
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:38,440
of course the whole Paul bennewitz

1654
01:07:43,859 --> 01:07:41,170
scenario which which your good friend

1655
01:07:45,690 --> 01:07:43,869
Greg Bishop did a great job covering in

1656
01:07:49,109 --> 01:07:45,700
his book project beta and also the more

1657
01:07:50,370 --> 01:07:49,119
recent revelations from a gentleman who

1658
01:07:53,069 --> 01:07:50,380
was on the podcast

1659
01:07:55,950 --> 01:07:53,079
Anthony Sanchez and his most recent

1660
01:07:58,309 --> 01:07:55,960
addition to the to the Dulce sting when

1661
01:08:00,599 --> 01:07:58,319
it comes to Dulce the story itself

1662
01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:00,609
suggesting you know there was some sort

1663
01:08:04,950 --> 01:08:02,530
of or there is some sort of underground

1664
01:08:07,500 --> 01:08:04,960
base in the area really didn't sort of

1665
01:08:10,770 --> 01:08:07,510
kick off until the late 1970s early

1666
01:08:12,089 --> 01:08:10,780
1980s and what happened is that well we

1667
01:08:14,370 --> 01:08:12,099
have to go back to a guy named Paul

1668
01:08:16,829 --> 01:08:14,380
bennewitz Paul bennewitz ran a company

1669
01:08:19,079 --> 01:08:16,839
called thunder thunder corporation which

1670
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:19,089
actually had its headquarters or his

1671
01:08:23,490 --> 01:08:21,730
base of operations literally on the just

1672
01:08:25,470 --> 01:08:23,500
outside the base perimeter of Kirtland

1673
01:08:28,530 --> 01:08:25,480
Air Force Base New Mexico

1674
01:08:30,900 --> 01:08:28,540
Benna we had an interest in UFOs and he

1675
01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:30,910
began to see a lot of activity occurring

1676
01:08:35,309 --> 01:08:33,250
a curtain that he perceived as being

1677
01:08:37,380 --> 01:08:35,319
linked with UFOs for example strange

1678
01:08:39,420 --> 01:08:37,390
lights in the sky strange aircraft

1679
01:08:41,459 --> 01:08:39,430
performing all sorts of weird maneuvers

1680
01:08:44,249 --> 01:08:41,469
lights sort of seemingly beaming down

1681
01:08:47,309 --> 01:08:44,259
from the sky he began to develop this

1682
01:08:49,470 --> 01:08:47,319
controversial theory at the same time

1683
01:08:51,900 --> 01:08:49,480
that he was investigating a number of

1684
01:08:53,910 --> 01:08:51,910
weird alien abduction stories in the

1685
01:08:56,340 --> 01:08:53,920
area a couple of which were actually

1686
01:08:58,979 --> 01:08:56,350
links with cattle mutilation events also

1687
01:09:01,860 --> 01:08:58,989
and overtime bennewitz

1688
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:01,870
scenario and his hypothesis grew and

1689
01:09:05,849 --> 01:09:03,850
grew to the point where he came to

1690
01:09:09,059 --> 01:09:05,859
believe that there was sort of massive

1691
01:09:11,610 --> 01:09:09,069
alien presence in the New Mexico area

1692
01:09:13,380 --> 01:09:11,620
and its people at certain people at

1693
01:09:15,599 --> 01:09:13,390
Kirtland knew about this and that there

1694
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:15,609
was maybe some sort of government alien

1695
01:09:20,220 --> 01:09:17,890
interaction that the aliens were hostile

1696
01:09:22,709 --> 01:09:20,230
and kidnapping people and forming all

1697
01:09:26,130 --> 01:09:22,719
sorts of weird experiments upon them the

1698
01:09:27,749 --> 01:09:26,140
scenario grew and grew and grew now good

1699
01:09:30,300 --> 01:09:27,759
friend of mine Greg Bishop wrote a book

1700
01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:30,310
about this called Project bata and the

1701
01:09:35,399 --> 01:09:32,170
book basically looks at the benefits

1702
01:09:37,319 --> 01:09:35,409
story but suggests that possibly the

1703
01:09:39,749 --> 01:09:37,329
a well have been some genuine UFO ins

1704
01:09:42,029 --> 01:09:39,759
incidents involved but Greg kind of

1705
01:09:45,299 --> 01:09:42,039
takes the view that more along the lines

1706
01:09:47,699 --> 01:09:45,309
of Benowitz having been sort of taken in

1707
01:09:51,059 --> 01:09:47,709
and fooled by the military who wanted to

1708
01:09:52,919 --> 01:09:51,069
pummel him with UFO stories because they

1709
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:52,929
believed or they were worried that he

1710
01:09:57,179 --> 01:09:55,090
was actually focusing his attention on

1711
01:09:59,219 --> 01:09:57,189
classified military programs in other

1712
01:10:01,679 --> 01:09:59,229
words their nowit's was looking for UFO

1713
01:10:03,149 --> 01:10:01,689
data if he had stumbled upon you know

1714
01:10:06,089 --> 01:10:03,159
classified military stealth aircraft

1715
01:10:09,540 --> 01:10:06,099
beam test loan and laser weaponry

1716
01:10:10,739 --> 01:10:09,550
testing etc and you know he certainly

1717
01:10:12,270 --> 01:10:10,749
wasn't working with the Russians or

1718
01:10:13,799 --> 01:10:12,280
anything like that but the fear was he

1719
01:10:16,169 --> 01:10:13,809
might inadvertently and innocently

1720
01:10:17,819 --> 01:10:16,179
reveal classified military programs that

1721
01:10:21,149 --> 01:10:17,829
he thought were the work of aliens

1722
01:10:23,299 --> 01:10:21,159
so as Greg points out in his book the

1723
01:10:25,770 --> 01:10:23,309
government decided to give Benowitz

1724
01:10:27,959 --> 01:10:25,780
exactly what he wanted and they

1725
01:10:30,569 --> 01:10:27,969
literally pummeled him with you know

1726
01:10:32,580 --> 01:10:30,579
tail after tail of UFOs and you know

1727
01:10:34,290 --> 01:10:32,590
they amped up kind of the horror angle

1728
01:10:36,089 --> 01:10:34,300
you know that we're all under direct

1729
01:10:38,699 --> 01:10:36,099
threat and that people were being sort

1730
01:10:40,739 --> 01:10:38,709
of surgically implanted with devices

1731
01:10:43,259 --> 01:10:40,749
that would allow them to be turned on

1732
01:10:45,179 --> 01:10:43,269
you know it was like sleeper agents

1733
01:10:48,179 --> 01:10:45,189
further down the line and that people

1734
01:10:50,399 --> 01:10:48,189
being sort of dissected and subjected to

1735
01:10:51,659 --> 01:10:50,409
all sorts of alien experimentation and

1736
01:10:53,850 --> 01:10:51,669
you actually got to the point where

1737
01:10:56,819 --> 01:10:53,860
there no it's got so stressed out that

1738
01:10:58,649 --> 01:10:56,829
he was actually admitted to an

1739
01:11:00,659 --> 01:10:58,659
institution you know you had to undergo

1740
01:11:02,759 --> 01:11:00,669
some sort of like psychological mental

1741
01:11:05,339 --> 01:11:02,769
sort of recovery

1742
01:11:07,409 --> 01:11:05,349
I mean you blame them I mean they the

1743
01:11:09,179 --> 01:11:07,419
Air Force of the Air Force office of

1744
01:11:11,759 --> 01:11:09,189
intelligence officers would even go in

1745
01:11:15,540 --> 01:11:11,769
on occasion and rearrange the furniture

1746
01:11:17,580 --> 01:11:15,550
in his house I mean they use all sorts

1747
01:11:19,859 --> 01:11:17,590
of weird little tactics to try and

1748
01:11:22,020 --> 01:11:19,869
destabilize him he said just move in if

1749
01:11:24,120 --> 01:11:22,030
you magic come home and yes your chairs

1750
01:11:26,310 --> 01:11:24,130
sort of two foot to the left or the

1751
01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:26,320
right or you know a painting that was on

1752
01:11:30,509 --> 01:11:28,570
one walls now on another wall you know

1753
01:11:32,339 --> 01:11:30,519
you would begin to wonder you know and

1754
01:11:33,839 --> 01:11:32,349
he got Alzheimer's or something you know

1755
01:11:35,819 --> 01:11:33,849
what I mean and not and forgotten

1756
01:11:38,250 --> 01:11:35,829
something he'd done two hours ago and

1757
01:11:39,359 --> 01:11:38,260
and all of this collectively and the

1758
01:11:40,919 --> 01:11:39,369
fact that a lot of these stories are

1759
01:11:42,689 --> 01:11:40,929
coming from military people he's

1760
01:11:43,140 --> 01:11:42,699
actually come to know and trust on the

1761
01:11:45,629 --> 01:11:43,150
base

1762
01:11:47,879 --> 01:11:45,639
you know instilled in Benowitz his mind

1763
01:11:48,899 --> 01:11:47,889
that there was some truth to it but what

1764
01:11:51,510 --> 01:11:48,909
happened

1765
01:11:54,330 --> 01:11:51,520
the Benowitz a lot of the stories that

1766
01:11:56,129 --> 01:11:54,340
were fed to it were focused on the the

1767
01:11:59,580 --> 01:11:56,139
Dulce base which of course is in north

1768
01:12:01,620 --> 01:11:59,590
New Mexico and eventually he began

1769
01:12:04,290 --> 01:12:01,630
steering his information and his

1770
01:12:06,629 --> 01:12:04,300
research away from kurtal and focusing

1771
01:12:08,490 --> 01:12:06,639
more on Dulce now you know Gregor's

1772
01:12:11,640 --> 01:12:08,500
argued that that was the plan all along

1773
01:12:14,129 --> 01:12:11,650
to you know get better wits looking away

1774
01:12:17,850 --> 01:12:14,139
from military programs at Kirtland and

1775
01:12:19,740 --> 01:12:17,860
into a relatively safe area in Dulce and

1776
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:19,750
to an extent I agree with that but on

1777
01:12:24,660 --> 01:12:22,570
the other hand where I kind of think the

1778
01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:24,670
issue is still open is that if there

1779
01:12:29,370 --> 01:12:27,250
really is a base at Dulce it would

1780
01:12:31,439 --> 01:12:29,380
arguably be just as hazardous for the

1781
01:12:33,570 --> 01:12:31,449
government to direct benefits towards

1782
01:12:35,250 --> 01:12:33,580
that not just away from Kirtland you

1783
01:12:36,930 --> 01:12:35,260
know why not just send him on a mission

1784
01:12:39,390 --> 01:12:36,940
into an area of the desert where there

1785
01:12:41,209 --> 01:12:39,400
was nothing the fact that send them into

1786
01:12:43,950 --> 01:12:41,219
the loony bin do you think they just

1787
01:12:45,899 --> 01:12:43,960
overreacted tried too hard well you know

1788
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:45,909
I mean I think you can look at it two

1789
01:12:50,700 --> 01:12:48,010
ways one of them one of the ways is

1790
01:12:52,770 --> 01:12:50,710
dependent upon dependencies character

1791
01:12:55,080 --> 01:12:52,780
you know if it was me and I was read

1792
01:12:57,479 --> 01:12:55,090
stories about hostile aliens doing all

1793
01:12:58,800 --> 01:12:57,489
sorts of experimentation on people you

1794
01:13:00,450 --> 01:12:58,810
know that wouldn't cause we have a

1795
01:13:02,610 --> 01:13:00,460
nervous breakdown it would cause me to

1796
01:13:04,439 --> 01:13:02,620
dig into the story more and if I came

1797
01:13:04,890 --> 01:13:04,449
out and found pictures moved and things

1798
01:13:07,320 --> 01:13:04,900
like that

1799
01:13:09,330 --> 01:13:07,330
I would stealthily set up cameras in the

1800
01:13:11,610 --> 01:13:09,340
room you know and see if I could pick

1801
01:13:13,169 --> 01:13:11,620
anything up so you know I wouldn't be at

1802
01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:13,179
that mindset where I think after six

1803
01:13:16,860 --> 01:13:15,250
months I would be in the loony bin so I

1804
01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:16,870
think you know that this dis sort of

1805
01:13:20,129 --> 01:13:18,850
approach I think he's only undertaking

1806
01:13:21,479 --> 01:13:20,139
when a lot of sort of background

1807
01:13:23,250 --> 01:13:21,489
research has being done on the

1808
01:13:25,470 --> 01:13:23,260
psychological state of the person and

1809
01:13:27,750 --> 01:13:25,480
how they can be manipulated and one

1810
01:13:29,729 --> 01:13:27,760
thing that works on one person might not

1811
01:13:32,660 --> 01:13:29,739
work on another but I think I think the

1812
01:13:34,950 --> 01:13:32,670
motivation was to destabilize him to

1813
01:13:38,129 --> 01:13:34,960
encourage him by whatever means

1814
01:13:41,780 --> 01:13:38,139
necessary to keep away from Kirtland and

1815
01:13:44,220 --> 01:13:41,790
you know uncovering a orbit unwittingly

1816
01:13:47,729 --> 01:13:44,230
classified military programs and just

1817
01:13:50,910 --> 01:13:47,739
focus on a different area now I don't

1818
01:13:54,030 --> 01:13:50,920
actually think you know the people on

1819
01:13:55,379 --> 01:13:54,040
the program literally wanted better with

1820
01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:55,389
cease health to suffer I mean some of

1821
01:13:58,530 --> 01:13:56,530
them have come forward and said you know

1822
01:14:00,600 --> 01:13:58,540
they kind of regretted the extent to

1823
01:14:02,370 --> 01:14:00,610
which he'd been affected I think the

1824
01:14:04,439 --> 01:14:02,380
goal was just to shut him down

1825
01:14:05,669 --> 01:14:04,449
and stop them you know not realizing

1826
01:14:08,030 --> 01:14:05,679
that it was gonna go to the ultimate

1827
01:14:10,830 --> 01:14:08,040
degree of sort of like a total nervous

1828
01:14:13,830 --> 01:14:10,840
physical and psychological collapse you

1829
01:14:15,899 --> 01:14:13,840
know well the other question I would

1830
01:14:19,020 --> 01:14:15,909
have is is there any other case of

1831
01:14:22,260 --> 01:14:19,030
someone else like a Paul bennewitz who

1832
01:14:25,680 --> 01:14:22,270
was transported to the loony bin in this

1833
01:14:28,770 --> 01:14:25,690
fashion or is he a singular effort well

1834
01:14:32,430 --> 01:14:28,780
you know I mean the problem isn't at

1835
01:14:34,740 --> 01:14:32,440
least ones I can think of publicly but

1836
01:14:36,300 --> 01:14:34,750
you know certainly Benowitz is the most

1837
01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:36,310
visible and the fact that he sort of

1838
01:14:41,820 --> 01:14:39,730
intricately tied into the story of the

1839
01:14:44,100 --> 01:14:41,830
doll sea bass you know just makes it all

1840
01:14:46,740 --> 01:14:44,110
the more intriguing and of course we'd

1841
01:14:48,660 --> 01:14:46,750
all see it's kind of like area 51 and

1842
01:14:51,510 --> 01:14:48,670
Roswell you know it just never goes away

1843
01:14:54,600 --> 01:14:51,520
I mean for example stories are still

1844
01:14:56,370 --> 01:14:54,610
being told about about the whole dulce

1845
01:14:58,229 --> 01:14:56,380
thing today I mean one of the people who

1846
01:14:59,850 --> 01:14:58,239
sort of been more vocal on this in the

1847
01:15:03,510 --> 01:14:59,860
last couple of years is a researcher

1848
01:15:05,700 --> 01:15:03,520
named Anthony Sanchez and in in acting

1849
01:15:08,070 --> 01:15:05,710
January 2010 Sanchez spoke with a

1850
01:15:11,030 --> 01:15:08,080
retired US Air Force operative who

1851
01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:11,040
confirmed yes there was a dulce facility

1852
01:15:15,270 --> 01:15:13,690
but rather than just being one kind of

1853
01:15:17,700 --> 01:15:15,280
secret underground base are actually

1854
01:15:22,200 --> 01:15:17,710
three and there is supposedly nicknamed

1855
01:15:26,760 --> 01:15:22,210
ta d 1 ta d 2 and ta D 3 and this is oh

1856
01:15:29,189 --> 01:15:26,770
mmm er CI al radio with Nick Redfern

1857
01:15:31,649 --> 01:15:29,199
author keep out you're talking to gene

1858
01:15:32,570 --> 01:15:31,659
and Chris because you end up our cast

1859
01:15:37,970 --> 01:15:32,580
Nick

1860
01:15:40,190 --> 01:15:37,980
[Music]

1861
01:15:43,580 --> 01:15:40,200
America's number one source for

1862
01:15:49,080 --> 01:15:43,590
independent authoring for over a decade

1863
01:15:51,480 --> 01:15:49,090
we are the gcn radio network Ray Perkins

1864
01:15:54,140 --> 01:15:51,490
a reclusive veteran burned out from the

1865
01:15:57,180 --> 01:15:54,150
Gulf War lives tortured by relentless

1866
01:15:59,400 --> 01:15:57,190
perplexing nightmares nightmares of a

1867
01:16:01,650 --> 01:15:59,410
horrific battle in deep space and of a

1868
01:16:04,350 --> 01:16:01,660
mysterious woman suffering an agony for

1869
01:16:08,090 --> 01:16:04,360
her devastated world a woman not yet

1870
01:16:11,490 --> 01:16:08,100
born calling across centuries to him

1871
01:16:14,220 --> 01:16:11,500
then a coincidence leads him to his

1872
01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:14,230
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1873
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novel attack of the Rockets lies in its

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1900
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1934
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1939
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1940
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1941
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1942
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1959
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1960
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1961
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[Music]

1962
01:20:03,670 --> 01:19:59,270
hi my name is Richard Dolan you're

1963
01:20:09,509 --> 01:20:06,209
[Music]

1964
01:20:12,930 --> 01:20:09,519
Nick Redfern offer of keep out and we're

1965
01:20:15,689 --> 01:20:12,940
focusing here on things in and around

1966
01:20:17,009 --> 01:20:15,699
Dulce New Mexico with gene and Chris

1967
01:20:19,620 --> 01:20:17,019
Chris you want to pick up on the

1968
01:20:22,830 --> 01:20:19,630
questioning well boy we obviously Nick

1969
01:20:24,870 --> 01:20:22,840
the the whole subject of Dulce could we

1970
01:20:26,609 --> 01:20:24,880
could do a couple of shows on on this

1971
01:20:28,379 --> 01:20:26,619
with this one topic so I don't want to

1972
01:20:31,350 --> 01:20:28,389
you know beat this one too long because

1973
01:20:32,790 --> 01:20:31,360
we have other ground to cover but I mean

1974
01:20:34,439 --> 01:20:32,800
what are your feelings about it I mean

1975
01:20:37,830 --> 01:20:34,449
where do you come down on it you seem

1976
01:20:40,739 --> 01:20:37,840
you seem kind of like a fence sitter in

1977
01:20:41,700 --> 01:20:40,749
terms of your voice in the book I mean

1978
01:20:45,299 --> 01:20:41,710
what do you think do you think that

1979
01:20:48,330 --> 01:20:45,309
there is let's say a an underground

1980
01:20:51,390 --> 01:20:48,340
nuclear storage facility there on an

1981
01:20:53,660 --> 01:20:51,400
Indian Reservation impossibly that could

1982
01:20:56,790 --> 01:20:53,670
be responsible for the heightened

1983
01:20:58,169 --> 01:20:56,800
environmental radiation that's affecting

1984
01:21:00,180 --> 01:20:58,179
the you know the health of the Hickory

1985
01:21:02,430 --> 01:21:00,190
Apache there I mean there's a lot of

1986
01:21:05,250 --> 01:21:02,440
very interesting sidebars to this story

1987
01:21:07,200 --> 01:21:05,260
I uncovered a source that claimed he

1988
01:21:09,479 --> 01:21:07,210
helped build the tunnel from Los Alamos

1989
01:21:11,040 --> 01:21:09,489
to Dulce and that it was his

1990
01:21:13,259 --> 01:21:11,050
understanding that was an underground

1991
01:21:15,149 --> 01:21:13,269
storage facility I mean where do you

1992
01:21:16,739 --> 01:21:15,159
come down well yeah I mean you know to

1993
01:21:19,049 --> 01:21:16,749
call me a fence which is actually

1994
01:21:20,430 --> 01:21:19,059
correct providing we sort of understand

1995
01:21:22,620 --> 01:21:20,440
you know what that means I mean there

1996
01:21:24,839 --> 01:21:22,630
are people in ufology who sit on the

1997
01:21:26,129 --> 01:21:24,849
fence because they just want to be you

1998
01:21:27,870 --> 01:21:26,139
know they want to try and please both

1999
01:21:29,759 --> 01:21:27,880
sides and they don't want to cause

2000
01:21:31,259 --> 01:21:29,769
friction or whatever you know that's

2001
01:21:33,930 --> 01:21:31,269
that's not my approach you know I'll

2002
01:21:36,689 --> 01:21:33,940
tell it as I see it but when it comes to

2003
01:21:38,969 --> 01:21:36,699
Dulce I do sit on the fence because not

2004
01:21:41,790 --> 01:21:38,979
because you know I want to please both

2005
01:21:43,859 --> 01:21:41,800
sides or sort of remain you know kind of

2006
01:21:46,919 --> 01:21:43,869
impartial or whatever it purely and

2007
01:21:48,989 --> 01:21:46,929
simply is because that's your you it's

2008
01:21:51,629 --> 01:21:48,999
weed and it can go two ways you know on

2009
01:21:53,009 --> 01:21:51,639
the one hand it sounds just like sci-fi

2010
01:21:56,040 --> 01:21:53,019
to imagine there could be some sort of

2011
01:21:58,770 --> 01:21:56,050
huge underground James Bond type villain

2012
01:22:00,299 --> 01:21:58,780
base you know in art in New Mexico where

2013
01:22:02,939 --> 01:22:00,309
all these sort of unspeakable things are

2014
01:22:05,339 --> 01:22:02,949
going on and if that's all there was

2015
01:22:07,439 --> 01:22:05,349
then I would say well you know shall we

2016
01:22:09,569 --> 01:22:07,449
some evidence of it or go away you know

2017
01:22:11,189 --> 01:22:09,579
but on the other hand that isn't what

2018
01:22:13,500 --> 01:22:11,199
we're getting what we actually have with

2019
01:22:15,419 --> 01:22:13,510
Dulce we have these intriguing stories

2020
01:22:17,759 --> 01:22:15,429
but we can prove that the government

2021
01:22:19,799 --> 01:22:17,769
really was digging in that area back in

2022
01:22:21,479 --> 01:22:19,809
the sixties we can prove that the earth

2023
01:22:24,059 --> 01:22:21,489
yeah I was deeply worried about a whole

2024
01:22:27,809 --> 01:22:24,069
space of cattle mutilations in that very

2025
01:22:31,079 --> 01:22:27,819
area in the 1970s so I sit on the fence

2026
01:22:33,359 --> 01:22:31,089
when it comes to Dulce because the story

2027
01:22:35,909 --> 01:22:33,369
sounds so outlandish but when we dig

2028
01:22:38,609 --> 01:22:35,919
into it we actually see some evidence

2029
01:22:40,859 --> 01:22:38,619
that is suggestive of something weird

2030
01:22:42,359 --> 01:22:40,869
going on in the area and I think one of

2031
01:22:43,889 --> 01:22:42,369
the other reasons why you know when it

2032
01:22:46,109 --> 01:22:43,899
comes to Dulce I don't mind being called

2033
01:22:47,969 --> 01:22:46,119
a fence is because one of the things

2034
01:22:50,040 --> 01:22:47,979
about Dulce so many people say well I

2035
01:22:53,009 --> 01:22:50,050
believe this and I believe that you know

2036
01:22:54,899 --> 01:22:53,019
in ufology the word belief to me it's

2037
01:22:56,549 --> 01:22:54,909
just like the bane of the subject nobody

2038
01:22:58,919 --> 01:22:56,559
should be believing anything what we

2039
01:23:01,199 --> 01:22:58,929
should be doing is lucky you're here and

2040
01:23:03,149 --> 01:23:01,209
trying to verify that evidence and date

2041
01:23:05,309 --> 01:23:03,159
when we find it otherwise you know it

2042
01:23:06,659 --> 01:23:05,319
becomes like a religion where you know

2043
01:23:08,790 --> 01:23:06,669
somebody believes in Heaven somebody

2044
01:23:10,349 --> 01:23:08,800
believes in reincarnation it doesn't

2045
01:23:11,879 --> 01:23:10,359
mean there isn't a life after death but

2046
01:23:12,629 --> 01:23:11,889
when it's when you're putting your own

2047
01:23:14,369 --> 01:23:12,639
spin on it

2048
01:23:16,439 --> 01:23:14,379
that's what's happening with things like

2049
01:23:18,479 --> 01:23:16,449
Dulce and the most aspects of ufology

2050
01:23:20,669 --> 01:23:18,489
you know somebody says I believe the

2051
01:23:24,299 --> 01:23:20,679
aliens come from z2 Reticuli well big

2052
01:23:26,549 --> 01:23:24,309
deal belief in aliens was Reticuli means

2053
01:23:28,169 --> 01:23:26,559
nothing you know you we need evidence

2054
01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:28,179
and that's the thing with but it doesn't

2055
01:23:33,209 --> 01:23:29,530
mean we shouldn't look into it and have

2056
01:23:35,040 --> 01:23:33,219
a have a theory or we shouldn't address

2057
01:23:37,259 --> 01:23:35,050
it and that's you know what I try and do

2058
01:23:39,599 --> 01:23:37,269
with Dulce there's something weird about

2059
01:23:41,969 --> 01:23:39,609
the area something's going on but to a

2060
01:23:44,129 --> 01:23:41,979
degree it's a big lead to suggest that

2061
01:23:46,889 --> 01:23:44,139
aliens are dissecting people and you

2062
01:23:49,139 --> 01:23:46,899
know gene-splicing them with gorillas or

2063
01:23:52,409 --> 01:23:49,149
whatever you know the cavern of dr.

2064
01:23:55,099 --> 01:23:52,419
Moreau yeah exactly so in that sense you

2065
01:23:57,929 --> 01:23:55,109
know I urge caution but equally

2066
01:24:00,689 --> 01:23:57,939
recognize the fact that there really is

2067
01:24:03,299 --> 01:24:00,699
a lot of oddities in and around Dulce

2068
01:24:05,339 --> 01:24:03,309
you know so let's investigate it but

2069
01:24:06,929 --> 01:24:05,349
let's not get steeped in belief systems

2070
01:24:08,429 --> 01:24:06,939
about what we want to hear because it's

2071
01:24:09,929 --> 01:24:08,439
cool and it's gonna get people in a

2072
01:24:11,849 --> 01:24:09,939
conferences and lectures you know it's

2073
01:24:14,939 --> 01:24:11,859
that's remaining partial until we know

2074
01:24:18,750 --> 01:24:14,949
well we had Anthony Sanchez on the

2075
01:24:20,759 --> 01:24:18,760
podcast last year oh boy and Frank

2076
01:24:22,259 --> 01:24:20,769
Warren a longtime researcher in the

2077
01:24:25,379 --> 01:24:22,269
field has done quite a bit of digging

2078
01:24:29,099 --> 01:24:25,389
into Sanchez's alleged Colonel X story

2079
01:24:31,439 --> 01:24:29,109
with his document the dd-214 which is a

2080
01:24:32,380 --> 01:24:31,449
discharge document memory serves me

2081
01:24:34,390 --> 01:24:32,390
correct

2082
01:24:36,580 --> 01:24:34,400
and there are some real serious problems

2083
01:24:38,440 --> 01:24:36,590
with it in fact the the supposed

2084
01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:38,450
division of our agency that that

2085
01:24:43,360 --> 01:24:40,730
supposedly released this document called

2086
01:24:45,490 --> 01:24:43,370
the way that Sanchez has presented a

2087
01:24:48,520 --> 01:24:45,500
totally bogus so what do you think about

2088
01:24:50,440 --> 01:24:48,530
this whole Anthony Sanchez the latest

2089
01:24:52,600 --> 01:24:50,450
wrinkle in this thing you do give the

2090
01:24:54,280 --> 01:24:52,610
Colonel X story any sort of credence at

2091
01:24:56,380 --> 01:24:54,290
all or where do you come down on that

2092
01:24:57,820 --> 01:24:56,390
well you know I try and look at the

2093
01:24:59,980 --> 01:24:57,830
bigger picture and I think the bigger

2094
01:25:02,530 --> 01:24:59,990
picture is you know I think we see this

2095
01:25:04,870 --> 01:25:02,540
in a lot of cases where something's

2096
01:25:06,880 --> 01:25:04,880
going on and it's not all just made up

2097
01:25:08,350 --> 01:25:06,890
out of you know nothing that there is an

2098
01:25:10,060 --> 01:25:08,360
area where you know there could

2099
01:25:12,190 --> 01:25:10,070
potentially be some sort of base or

2100
01:25:14,980 --> 01:25:12,200
installation what we often see is

2101
01:25:17,260 --> 01:25:14,990
military people coming forward with sort

2102
01:25:20,740 --> 01:25:17,270
of you know classic deep throat type

2103
01:25:22,660 --> 01:25:20,750
revelations mr. X type stuff and people

2104
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:22,670
people either take one view or another

2105
01:25:26,350 --> 01:25:24,650
for the most part they either think it's

2106
01:25:28,240 --> 01:25:26,360
nonsense or it's some brave

2107
01:25:30,400 --> 01:25:28,250
whistleblower coming forward to expose

2108
01:25:34,510 --> 01:25:30,410
the truth you know I often think that

2109
01:25:37,090 --> 01:25:34,520
this is done to confuse things and to

2110
01:25:39,850 --> 01:25:37,100
lessen the credibility of what might be

2111
01:25:42,760 --> 01:25:39,860
a real mystery in a real secret but

2112
01:25:44,590 --> 01:25:42,770
possibly one of less significance than

2113
01:25:45,940 --> 01:25:44,600
you know the story that's being told in

2114
01:25:47,650 --> 01:25:45,950
other words you know let's get somebody

2115
01:25:50,410 --> 01:25:47,660
coming forward he's got a really

2116
01:25:52,540 --> 01:25:50,420
fantastic story to tell and then whose

2117
01:25:54,220 --> 01:25:52,550
background can be demolished and then

2118
01:25:55,750 --> 01:25:54,230
what happens the rest of the deck of

2119
01:25:57,640 --> 01:25:55,760
cards falls down as well

2120
01:26:00,940 --> 01:25:57,650
and I think that's often the goal in

2121
01:26:03,190 --> 01:26:00,950
these sort of mr. X type stories or deep

2122
01:26:05,470 --> 01:26:03,200
throat type you know revelations but

2123
01:26:09,460 --> 01:26:05,480
it's you know similar to the Annie

2124
01:26:11,290 --> 01:26:09,470
Jacobson area51 scenario supply one yes

2125
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:11,300
it's really it's actually it's quite

2126
01:26:16,030 --> 01:26:13,970
similar yeah I think a lot of people in

2127
01:26:18,160 --> 01:26:16,040
ufology unfortunately farm at the mouth

2128
01:26:20,740 --> 01:26:18,170
when a military person comes forward to

2129
01:26:23,350 --> 01:26:20,750
reveal some big secret about UFOs well

2130
01:26:25,660 --> 01:26:23,360
my view has always been don't just

2131
01:26:28,450 --> 01:26:25,670
wonder about the secret that's been

2132
01:26:30,310 --> 01:26:28,460
revealed to you question why is it being

2133
01:26:32,590 --> 01:26:30,320
revealed to you you know why is this

2134
01:26:35,980 --> 01:26:32,600
person coming forward to talk about this

2135
01:26:37,720 --> 01:26:35,990
you know and and I think very often we

2136
01:26:40,810 --> 01:26:37,730
can get a good indicator as to what's

2137
01:26:42,970 --> 01:26:40,820
going on from the Y of the story rather

2138
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:42,980
than the contents of the story now the

2139
01:26:45,920 --> 01:26:45,170
question would be then if we're being

2140
01:26:48,980 --> 01:26:45,930
fed this and

2141
01:26:51,830 --> 01:26:48,990
Meishan the motivation is it to hide

2142
01:26:53,720 --> 01:26:51,840
some larger secret or just to experiment

2143
01:26:56,300 --> 01:26:53,730
on people and see how they react just in

2144
01:26:58,340 --> 01:26:56,310
case well you know I mean it could be a

2145
01:27:00,110 --> 01:26:58,350
combination of several things you know

2146
01:27:02,420 --> 01:27:00,120
that's the big problem with the UFO

2147
01:27:04,160 --> 01:27:02,430
subject is that it goes beyond just the

2148
01:27:06,050 --> 01:27:04,170
issue of whether or not life exists

2149
01:27:08,150 --> 01:27:06,060
elsewhere and it's visiting us you're

2150
01:27:11,180 --> 01:27:08,160
also sort of impacts upon government

2151
01:27:13,850 --> 01:27:11,190
secrecy government disinformation how

2152
01:27:15,470 --> 01:27:13,860
secrets are kept how lies are spread to

2153
01:27:18,350 --> 01:27:15,480
hide something else you know you really

2154
01:27:20,390 --> 01:27:18,360
have to be a student of the way the

2155
01:27:23,300 --> 01:27:20,400
government's mind works rather than just

2156
01:27:26,620 --> 01:27:23,310
you know wondering about sort of you

2157
01:27:30,020 --> 01:27:26,630
know alien stealing our DNA or whatever

2158
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:30,030
so I think you know when it comes to

2159
01:27:36,590 --> 01:27:32,970
stories like this you know to a degree

2160
01:27:39,050 --> 01:27:36,600
it's to keep us away from something to a

2161
01:27:41,210 --> 01:27:39,060
second degree it's to perpetuate fake

2162
01:27:44,060 --> 01:27:41,220
stories that have us all running around

2163
01:27:46,370 --> 01:27:44,070
like headless chickens but the third

2164
01:27:47,990 --> 01:27:46,380
thing is always remember it's obviously

2165
01:27:49,820 --> 01:27:48,000
being done for a purpose and if there's

2166
01:27:53,180 --> 01:27:49,830
a purpose there's still something worth

2167
01:27:54,980 --> 01:27:53,190
looking for you know and maybe like

2168
01:27:57,170 --> 01:27:54,990
Chris said that you know with his source

2169
01:27:58,940 --> 01:27:57,180
who talked about you know working on the

2170
01:28:01,160 --> 01:27:58,950
construction of this base but it was

2171
01:28:02,720 --> 01:28:01,170
more like a storage area maybe something

2172
01:28:04,040 --> 01:28:02,730
secret is being stored there that the

2173
01:28:06,710 --> 01:28:04,050
government doesn't want to know know

2174
01:28:09,110 --> 01:28:06,720
about but it prefers he can't keep

2175
01:28:09,740 --> 01:28:09,120
people away can't hide the story so what

2176
01:28:13,010 --> 01:28:09,750
does he do

2177
01:28:17,140 --> 01:28:13,020
well swamps be fairly down-to-earth

2178
01:28:19,610 --> 01:28:17,150
story with accounts of crashed UFOs and

2179
01:28:22,610 --> 01:28:19,620
aliens eating humans

2180
01:28:25,040 --> 01:28:22,620
deep below be Archuleta Mesa so if you

2181
01:28:26,720 --> 01:28:25,050
make it wacky ER and whackier people are

2182
01:28:27,980 --> 01:28:26,730
going to disbelieve what's really going

2183
01:28:29,600 --> 01:28:27,990
on there you're pointing them in this

2184
01:28:32,420 --> 01:28:29,610
direction but that raises a larger issue

2185
01:28:35,750 --> 01:28:32,430
to what extent is military

2186
01:28:38,450 --> 01:28:35,760
disinformation focusing us away from

2187
01:28:41,090 --> 01:28:38,460
some real things and into UFOs what

2188
01:28:44,390 --> 01:28:41,100
percentage of UFOs or related activities

2189
01:28:47,120 --> 01:28:44,400
such as abductions are simply government

2190
01:28:49,160 --> 01:28:47,130
playing tricks well you know in my view

2191
01:28:51,170 --> 01:28:49,170
I think it's it's a bit of both what I

2192
01:28:53,150 --> 01:28:51,180
think there's absolutely no doubt in my

2193
01:28:54,830 --> 01:28:53,160
mind there's a genuine UFO phenomenon of

2194
01:28:57,020 --> 01:28:54,840
unknown origins now whether it's

2195
01:28:58,610 --> 01:28:57,030
extraterrestrial whether it's you know

2196
01:28:59,870 --> 01:28:58,620
in simple terms

2197
01:29:01,840 --> 01:28:59,880
interdimensional you

2198
01:29:03,770 --> 01:29:01,850
which is actually a far more intricate

2199
01:29:06,230 --> 01:29:03,780
area research and rather than just

2200
01:29:07,640 --> 01:29:06,240
calling it interdimensional who know if

2201
01:29:10,160 --> 01:29:07,650
it's something else you know if it's

2202
01:29:12,320 --> 01:29:10,170
toll pers who knows what it is but it

2203
01:29:15,230 --> 01:29:12,330
exists and I think the government knows

2204
01:29:17,030 --> 01:29:15,240
this and doesn't want us to know what it

2205
01:29:19,580 --> 01:29:17,040
knows but equally I think the government

2206
01:29:21,650 --> 01:29:19,590
has realized over the years that this

2207
01:29:23,780 --> 01:29:21,660
very real phenomenon can also be

2208
01:29:26,330 --> 01:29:23,790
exploited by the government to cover up

2209
01:29:28,400 --> 01:29:26,340
its own activities and now we're going

2210
01:29:30,200 --> 01:29:28,410
to cover up this ladies and gentlemen we

2211
01:29:32,780 --> 01:29:30,210
have Nick Redfern author of keep out

2212
01:29:33,890 --> 01:29:32,790
with Jean and Chris you're in the para

2213
01:29:43,540 --> 01:29:33,900
cast

2214
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are you tired of searching for great

2215
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talk radio more important search in

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overall we are the GCM radio network

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that's my safe door calm hi this is Ted

2301
01:33:22,620 --> 01:33:20,560
Anderson have you ever wondered why

2302
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banks stock brokers investment advisors

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industry won't recognize the value of

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2310
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to 237 don't get left behind by rising

2311
01:33:59,690 --> 01:33:57,410
this is the wrong tire co-author of the

2312
01:34:03,890 --> 01:33:59,700
Opel encyclopedia other books you're

2313
01:34:05,750 --> 01:34:03,900
listening to the parent cap there is no

2314
01:34:07,580 --> 01:34:05,760
truth to the rumor that the only reason

2315
01:34:10,550 --> 01:34:07,590
we bring Nick Redfern on to the para

2316
01:34:16,940 --> 01:34:10,560
cast every so often is because of his

2317
01:34:24,590 --> 01:34:16,950
laughter the reason just as Robert plan

2318
01:34:26,390 --> 01:34:24,600
once said remember laughter let's get to

2319
01:34:28,280 --> 01:34:26,400
some of the listener questions oh you

2320
01:34:29,930 --> 01:34:28,290
would spring that on me right now let's

2321
01:34:33,320 --> 01:34:29,940
talk about Pine Gap first

2322
01:34:36,380 --> 01:34:33,330
okay well Pine Gap yeah Pine Gap is in

2323
01:34:37,840 --> 01:34:36,390
Australia and it's sort of one of if

2324
01:34:40,460 --> 01:34:37,850
we're probably the most secretive

2325
01:34:43,100 --> 01:34:40,470
location in Australia beyond any shadow

2326
01:34:44,570 --> 01:34:43,110
of a doubt and it's kind of like an

2327
01:34:47,300 --> 01:34:44,580
Australia clearance for the national

2328
01:34:49,280 --> 01:34:47,310
security agency in the sense that you

2329
01:34:51,560 --> 01:34:49,290
know where's agencies like the FBI and

2330
01:34:53,480 --> 01:34:51,570
the CIA responsible for sort of

2331
01:34:56,000 --> 01:34:53,490
intelligence gathering you know a lot of

2332
01:34:58,040 --> 01:34:56,010
manpower involved and spying operations

2333
01:35:01,010 --> 01:34:58,050
espionage programs that sort of thing

2334
01:35:03,740 --> 01:35:01,020
the Podolski base like the National

2335
01:35:05,540 --> 01:35:03,750
Security Agency in Maryland essentially

2336
01:35:08,210 --> 01:35:05,550
a sort of the eyes and the ears and

2337
01:35:10,310 --> 01:35:08,220
certainly more the ears sort of the

2338
01:35:12,520 --> 01:35:10,320
espionage world you know they they're

2339
01:35:15,650 --> 01:35:12,530
responsible for sort of phone tapping

2340
01:35:17,450 --> 01:35:15,660
monitoring emails you know faxes

2341
01:35:19,550 --> 01:35:17,460
telephones you just basically

2342
01:35:22,370 --> 01:35:19,560
eavesdropping on the planet and whoever

2343
01:35:23,660 --> 01:35:22,380
you know it's deemed necessary to spy on

2344
01:35:26,780 --> 01:35:23,670
if you like under those sort of

2345
01:35:29,930 --> 01:35:26,790
circumstances and Pine Gap is actually

2346
01:35:32,750 --> 01:35:29,940
the only location in all of Australia

2347
01:35:34,100 --> 01:35:32,760
but it's illegal to fly over you know

2348
01:35:35,540 --> 01:35:34,110
you would imagine their equivalent to

2349
01:35:39,110 --> 01:35:35,550
the White House might be the place but

2350
01:35:42,170 --> 01:35:39,120
it's actually Pine Gap and pine gaps

2351
01:35:44,690 --> 01:35:42,180
origins go back to the mid 1960s when

2352
01:35:46,490 --> 01:35:44,700
the government of Australia in the u.s.

2353
01:35:49,310 --> 01:35:46,500
signed what was known as the Pine Gap

2354
01:35:51,710 --> 01:35:49,320
treaty which basically allowed for the

2355
01:35:53,750 --> 01:35:51,720
establishment and Australian soil of

2356
01:35:56,840 --> 01:35:53,760
this sort of classified eavesdropping

2357
01:36:00,260 --> 01:35:56,850
agency or facility that was mat gonna be

2358
01:36:02,630 --> 01:36:00,270
manned by Australian personnel but from

2359
01:36:05,180 --> 01:36:02,640
the US people from the NSA and the CIA

2360
01:36:07,520 --> 01:36:05,190
and so a lot of state-of-the-art

2361
01:36:08,250 --> 01:36:07,530
surveillance equipment things like this

2362
01:36:11,700 --> 01:36:08,260
but

2363
01:36:14,670 --> 01:36:11,710
just like the CIA the NSA Pine Gap has

2364
01:36:17,010 --> 01:36:14,680
also been linked with UFOs have been

2365
01:36:19,680 --> 01:36:17,020
people who've talked about seeing what

2366
01:36:21,450 --> 01:36:19,690
looked like sort of platforms opening in

2367
01:36:23,580 --> 01:36:21,460
the desert floor and then these

2368
01:36:26,040 --> 01:36:23,590
weird-looking UFOs coming out and sort

2369
01:36:28,200 --> 01:36:26,050
of taking to the skies now one of the

2370
01:36:30,870 --> 01:36:28,210
things I note in the book is that

2371
01:36:33,180 --> 01:36:30,880
because Pine Gap you know is heavily

2372
01:36:35,040 --> 01:36:33,190
involved in surveillance operations you

2373
01:36:37,260 --> 01:36:35,050
have to wonder the more that our

2374
01:36:39,030 --> 01:36:37,270
technology develops you know are we

2375
01:36:40,470 --> 01:36:39,040
seeing evidence if some people do

2376
01:36:43,470 --> 01:36:40,480
believe you know the idea that there's

2377
01:36:45,450 --> 01:36:43,480
an alien base below Pine Gap or are we

2378
01:36:46,410 --> 01:36:45,460
seeing evidence and more and more of

2379
01:36:48,510 --> 01:36:46,420
these so-called

2380
01:36:50,310 --> 01:36:48,520
you know remotely piloted vehicles and

2381
01:36:52,800 --> 01:36:50,320
drones that have been increasingly used

2382
01:36:54,960 --> 01:36:52,810
for domestic surveillance you know

2383
01:36:57,030 --> 01:36:54,970
rather than just spying on enemy nations

2384
01:36:59,250 --> 01:36:57,040
by definition you know some sort of

2385
01:37:01,110 --> 01:36:59,260
weird-looking drone is a UFO

2386
01:37:03,060 --> 01:37:01,120
you know it's unidentified and explain

2387
01:37:04,950 --> 01:37:03,070
an innocent object but that doesn't

2388
01:37:07,590 --> 01:37:04,960
necessarily mean it's a alien and I

2389
01:37:09,660 --> 01:37:07,600
think sometimes when we see these

2390
01:37:12,630 --> 01:37:09,670
weird-looking craft like the ones that

2391
01:37:14,670 --> 01:37:12,640
have been seen in and around Pine Gap we

2392
01:37:17,250 --> 01:37:14,680
may well be seeing evidence of some sort

2393
01:37:19,650 --> 01:37:17,260
of highly advanced you know Terrestrial

2394
01:37:21,600 --> 01:37:19,660
device rather than something alien and I

2395
01:37:23,880 --> 01:37:21,610
think the more and more technology

2396
01:37:25,380 --> 01:37:23,890
develops it's going to become more and

2397
01:37:28,230 --> 01:37:25,390
more difficult to differentiate between

2398
01:37:30,150 --> 01:37:28,240
what might be quote ours or theirs it's

2399
01:37:31,920 --> 01:37:30,160
one of the more intriguing locations I

2400
01:37:33,540 --> 01:37:31,930
think in Australia also down in the

2401
01:37:36,330 --> 01:37:33,550
southern part of the country there's

2402
01:37:39,420 --> 01:37:36,340
there's a quite a interesting place

2403
01:37:41,670 --> 01:37:39,430
where that doomsday call from Japan may

2404
01:37:42,840 --> 01:37:41,680
have detonated some near nuclear device

2405
01:37:45,150 --> 01:37:42,850
I'm not sure if you're aware of that

2406
01:37:48,720 --> 01:37:45,160
story but there's a lot of room there

2407
01:37:54,030 --> 01:37:48,730
for for the government were governments

2408
01:37:55,800 --> 01:37:54,040
to hide a lot of Secrets Australia for

2409
01:37:57,300 --> 01:37:55,810
the most part he's sort of inhabited the

2410
01:37:59,580 --> 01:37:57,310
big cities sort of around the coastal

2411
01:38:01,860 --> 01:37:59,590
areas you know any some it's a huge

2412
01:38:04,110 --> 01:38:01,870
country it's massive

2413
01:38:06,540 --> 01:38:04,120
so in that sense you know makes a great

2414
01:38:08,640 --> 01:38:06,550
deal of sense to if you want to have a

2415
01:38:10,500 --> 01:38:08,650
secret installation far away from

2416
01:38:13,380 --> 01:38:10,510
everybody you know positioning in

2417
01:38:14,970 --> 01:38:13,390
Australia you know I mean UFOs aside you

2418
01:38:16,470 --> 01:38:14,980
know there been a lot of questions asked

2419
01:38:18,510 --> 01:38:16,480
in Australia in the last few years about

2420
01:38:21,480 --> 01:38:18,520
civil liberty issues about Pine Gap

2421
01:38:22,229 --> 01:38:21,490
being used to spy on you know other

2422
01:38:24,419 --> 01:38:22,239
domestic

2423
01:38:27,479 --> 01:38:24,429
level on everybody from you know from

2424
01:38:30,029 --> 01:38:27,489
people complaining about the use of

2425
01:38:32,370 --> 01:38:30,039
animals in farms you know vegetarians

2426
01:38:34,080 --> 01:38:32,380
and animal rights groups you know right

2427
01:38:35,459 --> 01:38:34,090
up to sort of some of the things you'd

2428
01:38:37,950 --> 01:38:35,469
expect them to get involved in like

2429
01:38:39,479 --> 01:38:37,960
terrorist issues but you know in terms

2430
01:38:41,759 --> 01:38:39,489
of UFOs there is this sort of

2431
01:38:42,629 --> 01:38:41,769
undercurrent of weird sightings in the

2432
01:38:44,640 --> 01:38:42,639
area as well

2433
01:38:47,399 --> 01:38:44,650
kind of like area 51 you know secret

2434
01:38:49,680 --> 01:38:47,409
base where we know classified military

2435
01:38:51,870 --> 01:38:49,690
operations are going on but there's also

2436
01:38:54,660 --> 01:38:51,880
a UFO connection you know the big

2437
01:38:56,370 --> 01:38:54,670
question is what is the nature that UFO

2438
01:38:58,950 --> 01:38:56,380
connection is it's something of ours as

2439
01:39:00,209 --> 01:38:58,960
I said you know just now all bears well

2440
01:39:03,509 --> 01:39:00,219
certainly any place that you have

2441
01:39:06,149 --> 01:39:03,519
established that you do secret testing

2442
01:39:07,529 --> 01:39:06,159
you're gonna see that you're gonna see

2443
01:39:08,640 --> 01:39:07,539
if you're a testing aircraft what's

2444
01:39:11,520 --> 01:39:08,650
going on of course the way the military

2445
01:39:14,100 --> 01:39:11,530
budgets being slashed maybe they'll be

2446
01:39:15,720 --> 01:39:14,110
developing fewer types of aircraft well

2447
01:39:17,399 --> 01:39:15,730
yeah I mean that could be the case I

2448
01:39:19,620 --> 01:39:17,409
mean it's sort of difficult to know I

2449
01:39:22,799 --> 01:39:19,630
think that the problem for the UFO

2450
01:39:24,810 --> 01:39:22,809
community and for the public is the

2451
01:39:26,879 --> 01:39:24,820
people where people see a weird-looking

2452
01:39:29,580 --> 01:39:26,889
object in the sky they immediately think

2453
01:39:31,259 --> 01:39:29,590
UFO you know today's technology if you

2454
01:39:33,689 --> 01:39:31,269
see a circular shaped thing flying

2455
01:39:34,169 --> 01:39:33,699
around there's no reason that has to be

2456
01:39:36,120 --> 01:39:34,179
alien

2457
01:39:38,189 --> 01:39:36,130
there's none at all you know the

2458
01:39:40,830 --> 01:39:38,199
technology exists to fly and build these

2459
01:39:43,709 --> 01:39:40,840
things and and I think unfortunately

2460
01:39:45,870 --> 01:39:43,719
government's realized that the the pop

2461
01:39:49,500 --> 01:39:45,880
culture image of the flying saucer is so

2462
01:39:52,049 --> 01:39:49,510
strong the it actually acts as a very

2463
01:39:54,330 --> 01:39:52,059
good cover you know an incredible cover

2464
01:39:56,819 --> 01:39:54,340
apron and I think you know this this

2465
01:39:59,040 --> 01:39:56,829
relates to white and many of these bases

2466
01:40:01,049 --> 01:39:59,050
have UFO stories attached to them don't

2467
01:40:03,089 --> 01:40:01,059
get me wrong there are a lot of highly

2468
01:40:05,160 --> 01:40:03,099
unexplainable cases linked to official

2469
01:40:07,739 --> 01:40:05,170
facilities but in some of them I think

2470
01:40:10,080 --> 01:40:07,749
we've got to point a finger at the you

2471
01:40:12,359 --> 01:40:10,090
know these corporations etc that are

2472
01:40:14,339 --> 01:40:12,369
building these remote drones and things

2473
01:40:16,859 --> 01:40:14,349
like that is that also part of the issue

2474
01:40:18,089 --> 01:40:16,869
too that nowadays we put more stuff into

2475
01:40:19,350 --> 01:40:18,099
the hands of the military-industrial

2476
01:40:21,419 --> 01:40:19,360
complex

2477
01:40:23,819 --> 01:40:21,429
and of course they're not constrained by

2478
01:40:25,799 --> 01:40:23,829
accountability they're private companies

2479
01:40:27,450 --> 01:40:25,809
and if they're not being regulated in

2480
01:40:29,399 --> 01:40:27,460
any way they can just do what they want

2481
01:40:30,930 --> 01:40:29,409
well yeah and then of course you know

2482
01:40:32,790 --> 01:40:30,940
the government has plausible deniability

2483
01:40:33,890 --> 01:40:32,800
of saying we know nothing about this or

2484
01:40:35,819 --> 01:40:33,900
it's nothing to do with us which

2485
01:40:37,649 --> 01:40:35,829
technically you know

2486
01:40:39,060 --> 01:40:37,659
stretching the truths of the finest line

2487
01:40:41,279 --> 01:40:39,070
possible but you're still telling the

2488
01:40:42,689 --> 01:40:41,289
truth you know the government is not

2489
01:40:44,040 --> 01:40:42,699
building this well that doesn't mean the

2490
01:40:48,119 --> 01:40:44,050
government hasn't contracted out to

2491
01:40:50,639 --> 01:40:48,129
somebody else to build it you know and I

2492
01:40:52,469 --> 01:40:50,649
think I think again you know with the

2493
01:40:55,139 --> 01:40:52,479
UFO subject not you know I'm not trying

2494
01:40:56,759 --> 01:40:55,149
to be Sam anything special which I'm not

2495
01:40:59,399 --> 01:40:56,769
you know but I do think a lot of

2496
01:41:01,919 --> 01:40:59,409
researchers miss one of the most

2497
01:41:04,679 --> 01:41:01,929
important things and that is you know

2498
01:41:06,540 --> 01:41:04,689
just not looking at the evidence and

2499
01:41:09,739 --> 01:41:06,550
wanting to be this or that but looking

2500
01:41:12,239 --> 01:41:09,749
at all the other potential possibilities

2501
01:41:14,429 --> 01:41:12,249
looking at what where technology is

2502
01:41:16,770 --> 01:41:14,439
today you know looking at the low

2503
01:41:19,529 --> 01:41:16,780
geographical locations of UFO encounters

2504
01:41:21,149 --> 01:41:19,539
in relation to military facilities and

2505
01:41:23,669 --> 01:41:21,159
things like this

2506
01:41:25,229 --> 01:41:23,679
and just trying to you know look at the

2507
01:41:27,299 --> 01:41:25,239
bigger picture I mean I mean I

2508
01:41:29,639 --> 01:41:27,309
understand you know the UFO subject is

2509
01:41:31,799 --> 01:41:29,649
in the most is one that provokes beliefs

2510
01:41:33,270 --> 01:41:31,809
and people want it to be this and they

2511
01:41:35,609 --> 01:41:33,280
want it to be exciting and they want to

2512
01:41:38,189 --> 01:41:35,619
go to conferences in here x-files like

2513
01:41:40,560 --> 01:41:38,199
tales which is fine but if you're going

2514
01:41:42,359 --> 01:41:40,570
to be level-headed and grounded about it

2515
01:41:45,299 --> 01:41:42,369
you know you can't go running around

2516
01:41:47,369 --> 01:41:45,309
like some headless chicken just

2517
01:41:49,770 --> 01:41:47,379
spreading stories because that's fun and

2518
01:41:51,869 --> 01:41:49,780
exciting you know we've by the UFO

2519
01:41:55,560 --> 01:41:51,879
business is regarded by a lot of people

2520
01:41:58,469 --> 01:41:55,570
as one huge reality show I mean you know

2521
01:42:01,379 --> 01:41:58,479
the the crazy Housewives of Beverly

2522
01:42:04,709 --> 01:42:01,389
Hills and the UFO researchers from area

2523
01:42:07,379 --> 01:42:04,719
51 is there a difference anymore well

2524
01:42:10,020 --> 01:42:07,389
you know I mean to an extent I mean this

2525
01:42:11,790 --> 01:42:10,030
is one of the issues over the media yeah

2526
01:42:14,279 --> 01:42:11,800
the major always quick to sort of paint

2527
01:42:15,989 --> 01:42:14,289
the UFO research community or the

2528
01:42:19,139 --> 01:42:15,999
paranormal research community as a whole

2529
01:42:21,209 --> 01:42:19,149
you know it's a little bit odd you know

2530
01:42:22,679 --> 01:42:21,219
and I mean when you look at most people

2531
01:42:24,270 --> 01:42:22,689
in the field I don't think you know of

2532
01:42:26,909 --> 01:42:24,280
course you can always find someone you

2533
01:42:29,609 --> 01:42:26,919
can single out who's like you know 55

2534
01:42:31,560 --> 01:42:29,619
years old lives in his mom's basement

2535
01:42:32,939 --> 01:42:31,570
who's got some obsession with some

2536
01:42:34,829 --> 01:42:32,949
actress he's never going to meet you

2537
01:42:39,810 --> 01:42:34,839
know what I mean you know the sort of

2538
01:42:42,689 --> 01:42:39,820
the typical bumbling person who you know

2539
01:42:44,549 --> 01:42:42,699
fits that category but for the most part

2540
01:42:46,169 --> 01:42:44,559
I think most people in this field a

2541
01:42:48,149 --> 01:42:46,179
level had even grounded and this idea

2542
01:42:49,200 --> 01:42:48,159
that we're all a little bit off kilter

2543
01:42:51,570 --> 01:42:49,210
is more

2544
01:42:53,729 --> 01:42:51,580
creation of the media because you know

2545
01:42:58,200 --> 01:42:53,739
it's an entertaining from their

2546
01:43:00,120 --> 01:42:58,210
perspective way to portray us but I

2547
01:43:03,540 --> 01:43:00,130
don't think you know we're sort of at

2548
01:43:05,700 --> 01:43:03,550
that reality TV level well I think what

2549
01:43:07,979 --> 01:43:05,710
lets the UFO research field down is that

2550
01:43:10,709 --> 01:43:07,989
you know issue brought up before belief

2551
01:43:13,170 --> 01:43:10,719
people want you know regardless of what

2552
01:43:14,430 --> 01:43:13,180
did or didn't happen at Roswell I don't

2553
01:43:17,070 --> 01:43:14,440
care what people say

2554
01:43:19,080 --> 01:43:17,080
everybody knew followed you once aliens

2555
01:43:20,790 --> 01:43:19,090
to have crashed at Roswell because it

2556
01:43:23,940 --> 01:43:20,800
would offer some vindication for the

2557
01:43:27,229 --> 01:43:23,950
story and the over of the bigger UFO

2558
01:43:29,520 --> 01:43:27,239
mystery but wanting it to be alien and

2559
01:43:33,060 --> 01:43:29,530
believing it to be alien you know

2560
01:43:35,220 --> 01:43:33,070
there's a fine line between accepting

2561
01:43:38,300 --> 01:43:35,230
that as facts and accepting it as what

2562
01:43:43,080 --> 01:43:38,310
it is a theory and I think ufology is

2563
01:43:45,690 --> 01:43:43,090
sale your'e is to get itself out of this

2564
01:43:48,840 --> 01:43:45,700
belief driven approach to the subject

2565
01:43:50,940 --> 01:43:48,850
rather than of you that what something's

2566
01:43:54,990 --> 01:43:50,950
going on but let's just look at all the

2567
01:43:56,400 --> 01:43:55,000
data and analyze it study it put it

2568
01:43:58,590 --> 01:43:56,410
together and try and come to some

2569
01:44:01,080 --> 01:43:58,600
conclusion not try and vindicate a

2570
01:44:03,570 --> 01:44:01,090
particular theory but that's not sexy

2571
01:44:06,120 --> 01:44:03,580
enough Nick that's not sexy

2572
01:44:07,110 --> 01:44:06,130
et it has to be something that's

2573
01:44:08,640 --> 01:44:07,120
romantic

2574
01:44:10,560 --> 01:44:08,650
oh the aliens are gonna come to earth

2575
01:44:12,510 --> 01:44:10,570
because we're so special we have a

2576
01:44:14,340 --> 01:44:12,520
special Nick Redfern the book is called

2577
01:44:16,440 --> 01:44:14,350
keep out you're with Gene and Chris

2578
01:44:27,610 --> 01:44:16,450
you're in the para cast

2579
01:44:34,030 --> 01:44:30,820
the GC and radio network providing the

2580
01:44:38,500 --> 01:44:34,040
world with hard-hitting talk radio G C

2581
01:44:40,300 --> 01:44:38,510
and great talk radio starts here hi this

2582
01:44:42,070 --> 01:44:40,310
is Ted Anderson if you own an Apple

2583
01:44:44,380 --> 01:44:42,080
iPhone and loved to listen to your

2584
01:44:46,120 --> 01:44:44,390
favorite programs on GCN I've got good

2585
01:44:48,430 --> 01:44:46,130
news for you I'm proud to announce that

2586
01:44:51,010 --> 01:44:48,440
GCN has a brand new iphone app available

2587
01:44:52,960 --> 01:44:51,020
for our dedicated listeners at G C and

2588
01:44:55,060 --> 01:44:52,970
live.com listen to your favorite

2589
01:44:57,160 --> 01:44:55,070
hard-hitting GCN programs live or

2590
01:44:59,380 --> 01:44:57,170
on-demand right on your iPhone and the

2591
01:45:01,750 --> 01:44:59,390
best part the gcn iPhone app can be

2592
01:45:03,580 --> 01:45:01,760
yours absolutely free download the

2593
01:45:06,130 --> 01:45:03,590
iPhone app today by clicking on the

2594
01:45:08,920 --> 01:45:06,140
banner at G C and live.com again that's

2595
01:45:10,330 --> 01:45:08,930
G C and live.com hi this is Ted Anderson

2596
01:45:12,160 --> 01:45:10,340
have you ever wondered why banks

2597
01:45:13,930 --> 01:45:12,170
stockbrokers investment advisors won't

2598
01:45:16,300 --> 01:45:13,940
talk about gold IRAs they've been

2599
01:45:17,980 --> 01:45:16,310
available since 1986 yet the financial

2600
01:45:19,690 --> 01:45:17,990
industry won't recognize the value of

2601
01:45:21,640 --> 01:45:19,700
gold free retirement gold has

2602
01:45:23,560 --> 01:45:21,650
outperformed paper investments yet no

2603
01:45:36,240 --> 01:45:23,570
word about IRAs if you would like to

2604
01:45:44,150 --> 01:45:37,780
806-853-9949

2605
01:45:51,940 --> 01:45:47,630
welcome back to the para cast the gold

2606
01:45:59,360 --> 01:45:51,950
standard of paranormal radio and now

2607
01:46:02,540 --> 01:45:59,370
here's Jane Steinberg we have Nick

2608
01:46:04,310 --> 01:46:02,550
Redfern we can't forget him because you

2609
01:46:05,720 --> 01:46:04,320
see officer keep out his latest work I

2610
01:46:07,370 --> 01:46:05,730
mean oh ho ho

2611
01:46:09,110 --> 01:46:07,380
who's girlfriend are you talking about I

2612
01:46:11,690 --> 01:46:09,120
don't know what he's talking about but

2613
01:46:13,700 --> 01:46:11,700
we'll get into that maybe later on I'll

2614
01:46:15,800 --> 01:46:13,710
tell you what we got just a few segments

2615
01:46:18,020 --> 01:46:15,810
left and so many places to visit we got

2616
01:46:20,450 --> 01:46:18,030
to go away from area 51 guy go away from

2617
01:46:21,260 --> 01:46:20,460
down under and Dulcie in the London

2618
01:46:24,110 --> 01:46:21,270
Underground

2619
01:46:26,330 --> 01:46:24,120
what about hangar 18 what pray tell is

2620
01:46:27,970 --> 01:46:26,340
hangar 18 other than a rather bad

2621
01:46:30,470 --> 01:46:27,980
science movie

2622
01:46:32,600 --> 01:46:30,480
well hangar 18 and it's sort of this

2623
01:46:35,450 --> 01:46:32,610
catch-all term that's been sort of

2624
01:46:37,900 --> 01:46:35,460
created or put in place to describe a

2625
01:46:40,100 --> 01:46:37,910
variety of hangars and underground

2626
01:46:42,200 --> 01:46:40,110
facilities at wright-patterson Air Force

2627
01:46:44,120 --> 01:46:42,210
Base in Dayton Ohio now that actually

2628
01:46:45,950 --> 01:46:44,130
isn't you know you can't sort of go to

2629
01:46:48,620 --> 01:46:45,960
the base fence and see this huge hangar

2630
01:46:50,270 --> 01:46:48,630
with a big number 18 painted on it and

2631
01:46:53,690 --> 01:46:50,280
you know which you denied access to that

2632
01:46:56,000 --> 01:46:53,700
there is no literal hangar 18 at the

2633
01:46:59,030 --> 01:46:56,010
base but as I said it's more of a term

2634
01:47:01,550 --> 01:46:59,040
designed to explain some sort of like

2635
01:47:03,320 --> 01:47:01,560
underground facility chambers etc where

2636
01:47:04,790 --> 01:47:03,330
people have said they've seen alien

2637
01:47:06,950 --> 01:47:04,800
bodies in cryogenic storage

2638
01:47:08,810 --> 01:47:06,960
interestingly enough although there are

2639
01:47:11,240 --> 01:47:08,820
a few stories have sort of crashed UFOs

2640
01:47:13,310 --> 01:47:11,250
being seen at wright-patterson most of

2641
01:47:15,530 --> 01:47:13,320
the stories are of the bodies somebody

2642
01:47:16,790 --> 01:47:15,540
sho'nac given access to this underground

2643
01:47:19,460 --> 01:47:16,800
place and there are these sort of

2644
01:47:21,230 --> 01:47:19,470
missile like containers containing these

2645
01:47:25,190 --> 01:47:21,240
small bodies and you know somebody gets

2646
01:47:27,380 --> 01:47:25,200
a briefing on them etc etc and again you

2647
01:47:30,020 --> 01:47:27,390
know it's it's an intriguing story it's

2648
01:47:31,790 --> 01:47:30,030
sort of like a proto area 51 in the

2649
01:47:34,310 --> 01:47:31,800
sense that these stories go back to the

2650
01:47:35,090 --> 01:47:34,320
latter part of the 1940s and you know

2651
01:47:36,650 --> 01:47:35,100
what's interesting about

2652
01:47:40,190 --> 01:47:36,660
wright-patterson it does have a

2653
01:47:42,740 --> 01:47:40,200
verifiable UFO link for example the Air

2654
01:47:44,600 --> 01:47:42,750
Force's UFO program sign grudging Blue

2655
01:47:46,880 --> 01:47:44,610
Book they were all operated out of

2656
01:47:48,980 --> 01:47:46,890
wright-patterson wright-patterson was

2657
01:47:50,810 --> 01:47:48,990
also home to the foreign technology

2658
01:47:52,850 --> 01:47:50,820
division of the Air Force which is also

2659
01:47:55,790 --> 01:47:52,860
being linked with UFOs over the years

2660
01:47:57,649 --> 01:47:55,800
and also a ufo-related classified

2661
01:47:59,780 --> 01:47:57,659
program called Project moon dust

2662
01:48:02,510 --> 01:47:59,790
which is also allied to wright-patterson

2663
01:48:04,490 --> 01:48:02,520
so in that sense you know we can prove

2664
01:48:06,620 --> 01:48:04,500
that there was a UFO linked to the base

2665
01:48:08,270 --> 01:48:06,630
what we've not been able to prove so far

2666
01:48:11,000 --> 01:48:08,280
but we have a lot of interesting stories

2667
01:48:13,689 --> 01:48:11,010
are the hangar 18 state tales now one of

2668
01:48:16,700 --> 01:48:13,699
the people who spoke out about this

2669
01:48:18,610 --> 01:48:16,710
publicly and vocally and who the

2670
01:48:21,680 --> 01:48:18,620
skeptics you know they have a hard time

2671
01:48:25,040 --> 01:48:21,690
fortunately in you know kind of knocking

2672
01:48:27,110 --> 01:48:25,050
the guy down was Barry Goldwater Barry

2673
01:48:29,000 --> 01:48:27,120
Goldwater was a major general in the Air

2674
01:48:30,890 --> 01:48:29,010
Force a senator for Arizona the

2675
01:48:33,560 --> 01:48:30,900
Republican Party's nominee for president

2676
01:48:35,419 --> 01:48:33,570
in 64 and also the chairman of the US

2677
01:48:39,020 --> 01:48:35,429
government Senate Intelligence Committee

2678
01:48:40,970 --> 01:48:39,030
now Goldwater was fully aware of all

2679
01:48:44,540 --> 01:48:40,980
these stories and rumors about dead

2680
01:48:46,910 --> 01:48:44,550
aliens stored under wright-patterson in

2681
01:48:49,100 --> 01:48:46,920
some sort of sealed well-guarded chamber

2682
01:48:50,689 --> 01:48:49,110
if you like one of the people he sort of

2683
01:48:52,580 --> 01:48:50,699
came across during the course of his

2684
01:48:54,860 --> 01:48:52,590
government and military work who became

2685
01:48:56,959 --> 01:48:54,870
actually good friends with and with

2686
01:48:58,970 --> 01:48:56,969
general Curtis LeMay on one particular

2687
01:49:00,830 --> 01:48:58,980
occasion the early sixties Goldwater

2688
01:49:02,570 --> 01:49:00,840
said to LeMay being a friend of is you

2689
01:49:04,129 --> 01:49:02,580
know about all these stories about these

2690
01:49:06,110 --> 01:49:04,139
bodies and everything else under

2691
01:49:07,760 --> 01:49:06,120
wright-patterson you know can you get me

2692
01:49:10,129 --> 01:49:07,770
in there can I see it and LeMay

2693
01:49:12,439 --> 01:49:10,139
basically blew his top and said not only

2694
01:49:14,270 --> 01:49:12,449
no but hell no and don't ever ask me

2695
01:49:16,280 --> 01:49:14,280
again you know it's at a come from sort

2696
01:49:18,050 --> 01:49:16,290
of a mr. X type character deep throats

2697
01:49:19,399 --> 01:49:18,060
well it's an interesting story but

2698
01:49:21,709 --> 01:49:19,409
there's nothing we can do with it but

2699
01:49:24,320 --> 01:49:21,719
when it comes from you know somebody

2700
01:49:26,149 --> 01:49:24,330
like Goldwater who has a verifiable you

2701
01:49:28,010 --> 01:49:26,159
know it was a background who's a major

2702
01:49:29,930 --> 01:49:28,020
player in the US government in the

2703
01:49:32,330 --> 01:49:29,940
twentieth century you know you have to

2704
01:49:33,350 --> 01:49:32,340
question why someone would make

2705
01:49:35,030 --> 01:49:33,360
something like that up and I don't

2706
01:49:37,280 --> 01:49:35,040
believe he did make it up I think you

2707
01:49:39,110 --> 01:49:37,290
know there really probably is or was

2708
01:49:40,910 --> 01:49:39,120
some sort of chamber below the base you

2709
01:49:42,860 --> 01:49:40,920
know what it contained that's the bigger

2710
01:49:45,200 --> 01:49:42,870
issue that's the bigger question but

2711
01:49:47,689 --> 01:49:45,210
when you got somebody like Goldwater by

2712
01:49:48,800 --> 01:49:47,699
default endorsing the reality of this

2713
01:49:50,600 --> 01:49:48,810
situation

2714
01:49:52,910 --> 01:49:50,610
you know then we have to I think the

2715
01:49:55,160 --> 01:49:52,920
onus is on us to dig further literally

2716
01:49:57,410 --> 01:49:55,170
dig but we don't have anybody like a

2717
01:49:59,300 --> 01:49:57,420
Goldwater anymore well you know I mean

2718
01:50:01,189 --> 01:49:59,310
but then again I used to say that other

2719
01:50:03,410 --> 01:50:01,199
people won't come forward you know one

2720
01:50:05,300 --> 01:50:03,420
day who were exposed to some good I

2721
01:50:07,790 --> 01:50:05,310
think that's what the UFO field needs

2722
01:50:10,070 --> 01:50:07,800
you know we got plenty of researchers we

2723
01:50:11,250 --> 01:50:10,080
haven't got somebody you know really

2724
01:50:13,290 --> 01:50:11,260
credible person on

2725
01:50:14,760 --> 01:50:13,300
inside who you know comes forward and

2726
01:50:16,380 --> 01:50:14,770
says hey you know I was braced on this

2727
01:50:18,870 --> 01:50:16,390
well you see we have people like for

2728
01:50:21,120 --> 01:50:18,880
example when Dennis Kucinich the Ohio

2729
01:50:24,300 --> 01:50:21,130
congressman mentions anything about UFOs

2730
01:50:25,350 --> 01:50:24,310
his presidential ambitions are shot down

2731
01:50:26,880 --> 01:50:25,360
yeah

2732
01:50:29,040 --> 01:50:26,890
of course you know that's it I mean he

2733
01:50:30,390 --> 01:50:29,050
used a godson that was Shirley MacLaine

2734
01:50:32,220 --> 01:50:30,400
for heaven's sake he's got to be a

2735
01:50:34,860 --> 01:50:32,230
lunatic well this is the thing with the

2736
01:50:36,690 --> 01:50:34,870
UFO subject is that although as I said

2737
01:50:39,270 --> 01:50:36,700
there's no doubt in my mind it's a real

2738
01:50:41,370 --> 01:50:39,280
phenomenon the big problem is he has a

2739
01:50:43,260 --> 01:50:41,380
massive ridicule factor attached to it

2740
01:50:44,940 --> 01:50:43,270
you know and it's kind of almost like

2741
01:50:47,550 --> 01:50:44,950
the kiss of death just because the

2742
01:50:49,020 --> 01:50:47,560
phenomenon is real doesn't mean you know

2743
01:50:52,020 --> 01:50:49,030
it doesn't provoke hysterical laughter

2744
01:50:54,570 --> 01:50:52,030
it does you know it's the line between

2745
01:50:57,000 --> 01:50:54,580
the two is so close as well and it also

2746
01:50:59,370 --> 01:50:57,010
makes it more difficult to gain

2747
01:51:00,630 --> 01:50:59,380
credibility people are just laughing up

2748
01:51:04,080 --> 01:51:00,640
there stays if they don't take it as

2749
01:51:06,390 --> 01:51:04,090
entertainment UFOs oh cool they have ETS

2750
01:51:08,940 --> 01:51:06,400
coming down you know as long as you

2751
01:51:11,250 --> 01:51:08,950
present that it's not going to be taken

2752
01:51:13,320 --> 01:51:11,260
seriously because the truth may at this

2753
01:51:15,390 --> 01:51:13,330
point just be nuts and bolts until you

2754
01:51:17,400 --> 01:51:15,400
have some real interaction if there is

2755
01:51:19,260 --> 01:51:17,410
any well yeah the big problem as I see

2756
01:51:20,970 --> 01:51:19,270
it is that you know for most people in

2757
01:51:22,440 --> 01:51:20,980
the general public it's entertainment I

2758
01:51:24,030 --> 01:51:22,450
understand that and I'm not you know I'm

2759
01:51:24,750 --> 01:51:24,040
not trying to pretend elitist or

2760
01:51:27,120 --> 01:51:24,760
anything like that

2761
01:51:29,430 --> 01:51:27,130
most people who occasionally watch you

2762
01:51:31,320 --> 01:51:29,440
know a UFO documentary they want

2763
01:51:32,910 --> 01:51:31,330
entertaining and that's fine and if it

2764
01:51:35,490 --> 01:51:32,920
brings the subject to more people's

2765
01:51:37,800 --> 01:51:35,500
attention well that's good too but

2766
01:51:39,420 --> 01:51:37,810
people for the most part they want the

2767
01:51:41,100 --> 01:51:39,430
entertainment as what as much as they

2768
01:51:42,900 --> 01:51:41,110
want the information you know most

2769
01:51:44,640 --> 01:51:42,910
people watching a documentary don't want

2770
01:51:47,580 --> 01:51:44,650
to hear about the government use in the

2771
01:51:49,470 --> 01:51:47,590
UFO program other subject to hide

2772
01:51:51,240 --> 01:51:49,480
classified military programs you know

2773
01:51:52,979 --> 01:51:51,250
this is also getting really too deep

2774
01:51:55,050 --> 01:51:52,989
they want to hear about abductions and

2775
01:51:58,410 --> 01:51:55,060
Roswell and things like that but equally

2776
01:52:00,870 --> 01:51:58,420
you know I think part of the problem has

2777
01:52:02,820 --> 01:52:00,880
been he's down to the UFO research

2778
01:52:04,860 --> 01:52:02,830
community you know we haven't handled

2779
01:52:06,750 --> 01:52:04,870
things as well as we could have you know

2780
01:52:09,180 --> 01:52:06,760
we get a lot of sensation with claims

2781
01:52:11,040 --> 01:52:09,190
out there we get a lot of people jumping

2782
01:52:13,229 --> 01:52:11,050
up and shouting loudly about this or

2783
01:52:15,210 --> 01:52:13,239
that and a lot of it is to sort of

2784
01:52:17,820 --> 01:52:15,220
perpetuate the field okay what people

2785
01:52:19,709 --> 01:52:17,830
say it is you know it's sensationalized

2786
01:52:21,300 --> 01:52:19,719
stuff because it's going to bring people

2787
01:52:23,910 --> 01:52:21,310
into the conference's it's going to sell

2788
01:52:25,170 --> 01:52:23,920
books and magazines etc well you know or

2789
01:52:26,610 --> 01:52:25,180
don't do that

2790
01:52:29,970 --> 01:52:26,620
I just had taking a rational

2791
01:52:32,190 --> 01:52:29,980
down-to-earth unbiased approach male ok

2792
01:52:34,170 --> 01:52:32,200
it's not as sexy it's not as you know

2793
01:52:35,760 --> 01:52:34,180
exciting but maybe we'll have a better

2794
01:52:38,280 --> 01:52:35,770
chance of actually solving things and

2795
01:52:40,290 --> 01:52:38,290
not just keep waffling on for 64 years

2796
01:52:43,080 --> 01:52:40,300
after Kenneth Arnold so for whatever it

2797
01:52:45,390 --> 01:52:43,090
was he saw yeah and I agree Nick and and

2798
01:52:47,130 --> 01:52:45,400
unfortunately you know just professing

2799
01:52:51,480 --> 01:52:47,140
an interest in these subjects for many

2800
01:52:53,460 --> 01:52:51,490
years guaranteed you some strange looks

2801
01:52:57,300 --> 01:52:53,470
and the laughter behind your back I

2802
01:53:00,390 --> 01:52:57,310
think that is slowly changing and I and

2803
01:53:03,570 --> 01:53:00,400
I do have a sense that since we're going

2804
01:53:06,570 --> 01:53:03,580
into this corporate talk recei period in

2805
01:53:08,490 --> 01:53:06,580
American history that private companies

2806
01:53:10,890 --> 01:53:08,500
and corporations are gonna have more and

2807
01:53:13,140 --> 01:53:10,900
more control over this subject and and I

2808
01:53:16,680 --> 01:53:13,150
see the aerospace companies as being as

2809
01:53:18,480 --> 01:53:16,690
being where if we could do Freedom of

2810
01:53:20,670 --> 01:53:18,490
Information Act requests to private

2811
01:53:24,000 --> 01:53:20,680
corporations why I know the first three

2812
01:53:27,690 --> 01:53:24,010
that I'd target but you know that this

2813
01:53:29,970 --> 01:53:27,700
is it's it's like what a church will say

2814
01:53:34,170 --> 01:53:29,980
about Russia it's an enigma wrapped in a

2815
01:53:38,250 --> 01:53:34,180
riddle inside a mystery or it's the same

2816
01:53:39,540 --> 01:53:38,260
with the UFO subject and and you know

2817
01:53:41,550 --> 01:53:39,550
less away the underground base scenario

2818
01:53:44,790 --> 01:53:41,560
the more you dig the more confusing it

2819
01:53:47,310 --> 01:53:44,800
gets and in the more you know just

2820
01:53:49,410 --> 01:53:47,320
disinformation tends to pop up and and

2821
01:53:53,220 --> 01:53:49,420
you know I must applaud you in your

2822
01:53:55,460 --> 01:53:53,230
ability to to collate and coalesce all

2823
01:53:57,960 --> 01:53:55,470
this information about these various

2824
01:53:59,910 --> 01:53:57,970
mysterious places together in one place

2825
01:54:02,430 --> 01:53:59,920
I think it's a it's a real it's a real

2826
01:54:04,740 --> 01:54:02,440
good reference book for for people who

2827
01:54:06,210 --> 01:54:04,750
want at a glance to to visit some of

2828
01:54:07,170 --> 01:54:06,220
these places and you do cover quite a

2829
01:54:08,520 --> 01:54:07,180
few of them which we're not

2830
01:54:10,380 --> 01:54:08,530
unfortunately gonna have time to cover

2831
01:54:12,570 --> 01:54:10,390
in the show we're gonna have to have you

2832
01:54:15,660 --> 01:54:12,580
back but I do have some questions from

2833
01:54:19,200 --> 01:54:15,670
our listeners including one from one of

2834
01:54:21,930 --> 01:54:19,210
our newest posters is blabby boy and boy

2835
01:54:23,790 --> 01:54:21,940
he he's firing off there there's about a

2836
01:54:25,320 --> 01:54:23,800
dozen questions here I'm gonna start

2837
01:54:27,870 --> 01:54:25,330
with a few of them have you ever heard

2838
01:54:31,020 --> 01:54:27,880
anything located around or under the

2839
01:54:33,870 --> 01:54:31,030
Isle of Wight and and he's been there a

2840
01:54:36,870 --> 01:54:33,880
few times and he's reading a feature on

2841
01:54:38,720 --> 01:54:36,880
it in a now-defunct UK UFO magazine and

2842
01:54:40,910 --> 01:54:38,730
he's wondering if you've ever heard

2843
01:54:43,460 --> 01:54:40,920
any sort of stories or any information

2844
01:54:45,230 --> 01:54:43,470
about that area I actually haven't I

2845
01:54:46,340 --> 01:54:45,240
mean you know comes with island the

2846
01:54:48,410 --> 01:54:46,350
other white for people who don't know

2847
01:54:50,750 --> 01:54:48,420
just off the south coast of England

2848
01:54:52,790 --> 01:54:50,760
actually not too far from where I used

2849
01:54:54,710 --> 01:54:52,800
to live I just as an aside that means

2850
01:54:56,270 --> 01:54:54,720
three of my friends we had a trailer for

2851
01:54:58,280 --> 01:54:56,280
three years in a little town called

2852
01:55:00,410 --> 01:54:58,290
bricks and which is not a million miles

2853
01:55:02,420 --> 01:55:00,420
away from the other way but no I've

2854
01:55:04,280 --> 01:55:02,430
never I've never heard that story at all

2855
01:55:05,840 --> 01:55:04,290
excluding the capital cities of

2856
01:55:08,120 --> 01:55:05,850
Birmingham in Manchester are there any

2857
01:55:09,740 --> 01:55:08,130
other strange secret places hidden in

2858
01:55:11,870 --> 01:55:09,750
other cities in the UK they're of

2859
01:55:13,640 --> 01:55:11,880
interest now you do cover men depths

2860
01:55:18,500 --> 01:55:13,650
what you want to talk about men dips and

2861
01:55:21,380 --> 01:55:18,510
possibly Bentwaters just briefly yeah we

2862
01:55:23,690 --> 01:55:21,390
will go to visit Bentwaters and lots of

2863
01:55:35,910 --> 01:55:23,700
other places as we continue with Nick

2864
01:55:41,830 --> 01:55:39,040
are you ready to order the official para

2865
01:55:43,810 --> 01:55:41,840
cast t-shirt you asked we answered we're

2866
01:55:47,590 --> 01:55:43,820
now taking orders for the official para

2867
01:55:49,870 --> 01:55:47,600
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2868
01:55:52,180 --> 01:55:49,880
cotton the front of it features the same

2869
01:55:55,060 --> 01:55:52,190
logo that we have on our community

2870
01:55:58,720 --> 01:55:55,070
forums on the back it says separating

2871
01:56:00,850 --> 01:55:58,730
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2872
01:56:03,160 --> 01:56:00,860
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2873
01:56:07,060 --> 01:56:03,170
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2874
01:56:09,370 --> 01:56:07,070
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2875
01:56:11,680 --> 01:56:09,380
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2876
01:56:14,290 --> 01:56:11,690
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2877
01:56:17,230 --> 01:56:14,300
to place your order for the official

2878
01:56:19,330 --> 01:56:17,240
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2879
01:56:21,850 --> 01:56:19,340
one more thing to talk about and that's

2880
01:56:24,430 --> 01:56:21,860
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2881
01:56:26,250 --> 01:56:24,440
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2882
01:56:28,690 --> 01:56:26,260
we even have a flip Video camcorder

2883
01:56:31,390 --> 01:56:28,700
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2884
01:56:33,340 --> 01:56:31,400
the official para cast store it's all

2885
01:56:37,570 --> 01:56:33,350
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2886
01:56:39,310 --> 01:56:37,580
store store dot Lapera casts comm Nick

2887
01:56:41,740 --> 01:56:39,320
Wadena with Midas resources if you have

2888
01:56:43,480 --> 01:56:41,750
an IRA or 401k did you know you can turn

2889
01:56:45,100 --> 01:56:43,490
that nest egg into a physical gold and

2890
01:56:46,660 --> 01:56:45,110
silver nest egg do you know what kind of

2891
01:56:48,820 --> 01:56:46,670
specific precious metals are allowed by

2892
01:56:49,990 --> 01:56:48,830
law to be in retirement accounts did you

2893
01:56:51,700 --> 01:56:50,000
know that you can take physical delivery

2894
01:56:52,990 --> 01:56:51,710
of these precious metals would you like

2895
01:56:54,640 --> 01:56:53,000
to know more it's a fact

2896
01:56:56,260 --> 01:56:54,650
stocks of mutual funds have been a wild

2897
01:56:58,060 --> 01:56:56,270
ride and many people's retirement funds

2898
01:56:59,470 --> 01:56:58,070
have taken large hits if you put a

2899
01:57:01,600 --> 01:56:59,480
hundred thousand dollars in gold in

2900
01:57:03,100 --> 01:57:01,610
January of 2009 it would be worth over

2901
01:57:04,510 --> 01:57:03,110
two hundred thousand dollars for that if

2902
01:57:06,340 --> 01:57:04,520
you put a hundred thousand dollars in

2903
01:57:07,600 --> 01:57:06,350
silver then it would be worth over three

2904
01:57:09,460 --> 01:57:07,610
hundred thousand dollars today as

2905
01:57:11,020 --> 01:57:09,470
bailouts for banks and the seemingly

2906
01:57:12,970 --> 01:57:11,030
endless printing of money continues

2907
01:57:14,530 --> 01:57:12,980
worldwide the value of the dollar click

2908
01:57:16,060 --> 01:57:14,540
declined further in term possibly

2909
01:57:18,190 --> 01:57:16,070
pushing gold and silver much much higher

2910
01:57:22,900 --> 01:57:18,200
protect what you worked so hard for call

2911
01:57:24,430 --> 01:57:22,910
me Nick why Dean 1-866 to 237 extension

2912
01:57:28,780 --> 01:57:24,440
three four three and learn what your

2913
01:57:30,370 --> 01:57:28,790
options are again that's 1-866 to 237

2914
01:57:35,260 --> 01:57:30,380
extension three four three

2915
01:57:37,680 --> 01:57:35,270
once again 1-866 to 237 extension three

2916
01:57:40,090 --> 01:57:37,690
four three

2917
01:57:42,280 --> 01:57:40,100
ready to save while getting prepared

2918
01:57:44,890 --> 01:57:42,290
then you're ready for the winter sale at

2919
01:57:46,780 --> 01:57:44,900
21st century goods calm take advantage

2920
01:57:49,300 --> 01:57:46,790
of the incredible savings on all items

2921
01:57:52,420 --> 01:57:49,310
at 21st century goods calm portable

2922
01:57:54,940 --> 01:57:52,430
am/fm and shortwave radios from 1995

2923
01:57:57,250 --> 01:57:54,950
American Red Cross emergency radios and

2924
01:57:59,950 --> 01:57:57,260
Kato radios from 2895

2925
01:58:03,430 --> 01:57:59,960
solar lanterns from 20 to 95 solar

2926
01:58:05,290 --> 01:58:03,440
flashlights to 416 95 can crank led

2927
01:58:07,750 --> 01:58:05,300
hurricane lanterns and flashlights from

2928
01:58:09,880 --> 01:58:07,760
895 be sure to check out the flexible

2929
01:58:12,790 --> 01:58:09,890
solar panels to power your emergency and

2930
01:58:14,320 --> 01:58:12,800
survival gear every order over $75 will

2931
01:58:16,840 --> 01:58:14,330
receive a solar-powered flashlight

2932
01:58:18,940 --> 01:58:16,850
absolutely free so get prepared this

2933
01:58:21,730 --> 01:58:18,950
winter by visiting 21st century goods

2934
01:58:25,510 --> 01:58:21,740
calm spelled the number 2 the number 1

2935
01:58:27,880 --> 01:58:25,520
st century goods calm 21st century goods

2936
01:58:30,640 --> 01:58:27,890
calm or call eight six six nine nine

2937
01:58:33,190 --> 01:58:30,650
nine eight four two two that's eight six

2938
01:58:35,740 --> 01:58:33,200
six nine nine nine eight four two two

2939
01:58:38,830 --> 01:58:35,750
twenty first century goods calm power up

2940
01:58:40,810 --> 01:58:38,840
your survival digestive health is the

2941
01:58:43,180 --> 01:58:40,820
key to wellness and elimination of

2942
01:58:45,070 --> 01:58:43,190
toxins that bears repeating digestive

2943
01:58:47,590 --> 01:58:45,080
health is the key to wellness an

2944
01:58:49,990 --> 01:58:47,600
elimination of toxins and pro-am one

2945
01:58:52,000 --> 01:58:50,000
daily probiotic cleanse is the key to

2946
01:58:54,340 --> 01:58:52,010
digestive health pro-am one is a

2947
01:58:56,290 --> 01:58:54,350
powerful liquid probiotic strong enough

2948
01:58:59,020 --> 01:58:56,300
to cleanse gentle enough to use every

2949
01:59:00,820 --> 01:58:59,030
day pro em1 as dairy wheat and soy free

2950
01:59:01,750 --> 01:59:00,830
contains all-natural and certified

2951
01:59:03,430 --> 01:59:01,760
organic ingredients

2952
01:59:05,140 --> 01:59:03,440
contains no preservatives or animal

2953
01:59:06,820 --> 01:59:05,150
products supports a healthy digestive

2954
01:59:08,740 --> 01:59:06,830
and immune system supports weight loss

2955
01:59:10,510 --> 01:59:08,750
improves absorption of food nutrients

2956
01:59:13,150 --> 01:59:10,520
aids and controlling yeast infections is

2957
01:59:15,010 --> 01:59:13,160
never freeze-dried and uses three groups

2958
01:59:17,170 --> 01:59:15,020
of live viable beneficial microbes to

2959
01:59:19,150 --> 01:59:17,180
cleanse and remove toxins order pro am

2960
01:59:24,550 --> 01:59:19,160
one daily probiotic cleanse at Tarragona

2961
01:59:28,990 --> 01:59:24,560
calm spelled ter a gan IX calm tarragon

2962
01:59:34,000 --> 01:59:29,000
x-com or call toll-free 866 3 6 9 3 6 7

2963
01:59:40,110 --> 01:59:34,010
8 that's 8 6 6 3 6 9 3 6 7 8 pro-am 1

2964
01:59:40,120 --> 01:59:44,190
[Music]

2965
02:00:00,520 --> 01:59:57,610
you do listen to the podcast because my

2966
02:00:03,010 --> 02:00:00,530
girlfriend again toll free of him yet

2967
02:00:05,950 --> 02:00:03,020
he's got seven at the same time Krystal

2968
02:00:07,450 --> 02:00:05,960
Brian he's a wild animal Chris O'Brien

2969
02:00:09,040 --> 02:00:07,460
man-about-town

2970
02:00:11,380 --> 02:00:09,050
to learn in the Orient it's the

2971
02:00:13,630 --> 02:00:11,390
incredible secret to cloud men's minds

2972
02:00:15,130 --> 02:00:13,640
so they cannot see him women can see him

2973
02:00:17,290 --> 02:00:15,140
that's the problem they run away

2974
02:00:19,540 --> 02:00:17,300
seriously we have Nick Redfern the book

2975
02:00:21,880 --> 02:00:19,550
is called keep out and Chris had started

2976
02:00:24,100 --> 02:00:21,890
a new thread of discussion Chris well

2977
02:00:27,100 --> 02:00:24,110
again we we do have other facilities in

2978
02:00:28,600 --> 02:00:27,110
in and around England is it called men

2979
02:00:33,760 --> 02:00:28,610
dips is that is that how you pronounce

2980
02:00:38,260 --> 02:00:33,770
it yeah and then men dips to and

2981
02:00:39,910 --> 02:00:38,270
Wilshire oh there you go yeah I'm

2982
02:00:42,280 --> 02:00:39,920
getting them confused but well let's

2983
02:00:45,400 --> 02:00:42,290
talk about some of the other these other

2984
02:00:47,320 --> 02:00:45,410
facilities in the UK are alo Manor which

2985
02:00:49,330 --> 02:00:47,330
is situated in the county of Wiltshire

2986
02:00:51,400 --> 02:00:49,340
which interestingly luffy's where most

2987
02:00:53,890 --> 02:00:51,410
of the crop circles appear in that same

2988
02:00:57,070 --> 02:00:53,900
County every year ras Ludlow man has a

2989
02:00:59,680 --> 02:00:57,080
long and deep history and linkage to

2990
02:01:02,770 --> 02:00:59,690
UFOs what's interesting about the base

2991
02:01:05,170 --> 02:01:02,780
is that is the area itself there's a

2992
02:01:07,360 --> 02:01:05,180
city in the county of Wiltshire called

2993
02:01:09,250 --> 02:01:07,370
bath and it's all built out of one

2994
02:01:11,490 --> 02:01:09,260
particular type of stone that was

2995
02:01:13,960 --> 02:01:11,500
quarried from the very area where

2996
02:01:15,430 --> 02:01:13,970
Radloff manor now exists so in other

2997
02:01:17,320 --> 02:01:15,440
words when the rock and the stone was

2998
02:01:20,950 --> 02:01:17,330
quarried out you had these massive

2999
02:01:22,479 --> 02:01:20,960
underground caverns and tunnels you know

3000
02:01:25,479 --> 02:01:22,489
where the rock was taken from to build

3001
02:01:27,310 --> 02:01:25,489
the city of Bath and in the 1940s the

3002
02:01:28,900 --> 02:01:27,320
gov British government recognized the

3003
02:01:30,820 --> 02:01:28,910
significance of you know having all

3004
02:01:32,650 --> 02:01:30,830
these tunnels and caverns it would be a

3005
02:01:34,150 --> 02:01:32,660
good place for weapons storage or for

3006
02:01:36,190 --> 02:01:34,160
somewhere for the government to go in

3007
02:01:37,630 --> 02:01:36,200
the event of a national emergency and

3008
02:01:39,160 --> 02:01:37,640
particularly more so in the fifties and

3009
02:01:40,960 --> 02:01:39,170
sixties you know the height of the Cold

3010
02:01:43,030 --> 02:01:40,970
War while the rest of us are sort of

3011
02:01:44,920 --> 02:01:43,040
flying above the surface you know that

3012
02:01:48,420 --> 02:01:44,930
the government has somewhere to hide out

3013
02:01:50,709 --> 02:01:48,430
and and survive unfortunately the entire

3014
02:01:51,250 --> 02:01:50,719
location under our effort lamanno is

3015
02:01:54,370 --> 02:01:51,260
this sort of

3016
02:01:56,470 --> 02:01:54,380
rabbits warren type situation of tunnels

3017
02:01:58,450 --> 02:01:56,480
and caverns and caves since the 60s

3018
02:02:00,450 --> 02:01:58,460
onwards though a lot of military people

3019
02:02:03,250 --> 02:02:00,460
have come forward talking about

3020
02:02:05,410 --> 02:02:03,260
classified UFO investigations having

3021
02:02:07,510 --> 02:02:05,420
been undertaken deep below red low and

3022
02:02:09,460 --> 02:02:07,520
again you have these hangar 18 type

3023
02:02:11,710 --> 02:02:09,470
stories of dead aliens under the base

3024
02:02:13,540 --> 02:02:11,720
and crashed UFOs and things like that a

3025
02:02:15,130 --> 02:02:13,550
number of files of surfaced under the

3026
02:02:17,500 --> 02:02:15,140
terms of the Freedom of Information Act

3027
02:02:20,410 --> 02:02:17,510
showing you know we can verify that

3028
02:02:22,990 --> 02:02:20,420
personnel from the base were involved in

3029
02:02:24,670 --> 02:02:23,000
UFO investigations but you know the

3030
02:02:26,380 --> 02:02:24,680
government stories always be well it's

3031
02:02:28,030 --> 02:02:26,390
just at a low level and it was just a

3032
02:02:29,530 --> 02:02:28,040
case of sending a few people out to

3033
02:02:31,330 --> 02:02:29,540
interview witnesses but you know we're

3034
02:02:33,070 --> 02:02:31,340
not doing anything sort of super secret

3035
02:02:34,450 --> 02:02:33,080
but the retired military people when

3036
02:02:36,580 --> 02:02:34,460
they come forward tell a different story

3037
02:02:38,830 --> 02:02:36,590
but I said the most significant thing is

3038
02:02:41,500 --> 02:02:38,840
you know of all the places where these

3039
02:02:44,770 --> 02:02:41,510
rooms are coming from it's a base which

3040
02:02:47,710 --> 02:02:44,780
has a very intriguing and very secret

3041
02:02:49,570 --> 02:02:47,720
but verifiable underground aspect to it

3042
02:02:51,550 --> 02:02:49,580
as well going back to the forties with

3043
02:02:54,190 --> 02:02:51,560
these quarried out tunnels another one

3044
02:02:56,260 --> 02:02:54,200
is the bent world waters Woodbridge

3045
02:02:59,620 --> 02:02:56,270
facility on the East Coast this is where

3046
02:03:02,560 --> 02:02:59,630
the famous Rendlesham forest UFO landing

3047
02:03:04,450 --> 02:03:02,570
case occurred in December 1980 a lot of

3048
02:03:06,910 --> 02:03:04,460
people focus upon the event itself

3049
02:03:08,980 --> 02:03:06,920
obviously you know which makes sense but

3050
02:03:10,570 --> 02:03:08,990
Larry Warren who was the co-author with

3051
02:03:11,020 --> 02:03:10,580
Peter Robbins of the book left at

3052
02:03:12,940 --> 02:03:11,030
Eastgate

3053
02:03:15,100 --> 02:03:12,950
Larry was one of the eran based at

3054
02:03:17,560 --> 02:03:15,110
Bentwaters at the time he talked about

3055
02:03:19,960 --> 02:03:17,570
in the wake of the encounter Ben waters

3056
02:03:21,760 --> 02:03:19,970
in December 1980 but being taken to an

3057
02:03:24,010 --> 02:03:21,770
underground part of the base like a

3058
02:03:26,020 --> 02:03:24,020
massive underground installation where

3059
02:03:27,810 --> 02:03:26,030
it seems from Larry's word there was

3060
02:03:30,460 --> 02:03:27,820
like some sort of alien human

3061
02:03:32,530 --> 02:03:30,470
interaction going on now when this was

3062
02:03:34,270 --> 02:03:32,540
going with missus took place Larry was

3063
02:03:36,460 --> 02:03:34,280
actually sort of bended into like it

3064
02:03:38,950 --> 02:03:36,470
sounds like a drugged out state you know

3065
02:03:41,590 --> 02:03:38,960
as if he'd been injected with something

3066
02:03:43,990 --> 02:03:41,600
so you know we have to wonder are his

3067
02:03:46,030 --> 02:03:44,000
memories fully as we perceive them or

3068
02:03:47,890 --> 02:03:46,040
had he been subject to some sort of

3069
02:03:50,410 --> 02:03:47,900
weird mind-control thing to sort of

3070
02:03:52,060 --> 02:03:50,420
create the scenario that maybe somebody

3071
02:03:53,890 --> 02:03:52,070
wanted him then to sort of spread or is

3072
02:03:55,180 --> 02:03:53,900
it a combination of the two you know I

3073
02:03:57,610 --> 02:03:55,190
don't think there's any well there's no

3074
02:04:00,820 --> 02:03:57,620
doubt in my mind that Larry had a real

3075
02:04:03,660 --> 02:04:00,830
UFO experience was the underground thing

3076
02:04:05,150 --> 02:04:03,670
kind of added to it to make it sound

3077
02:04:06,800 --> 02:04:05,160
unbelievable

3078
02:04:08,660 --> 02:04:06,810
was he really showing this was it a

3079
02:04:11,210 --> 02:04:08,670
combination the two I think there's a

3080
02:04:13,280 --> 02:04:11,220
lot of sort of mind games going on with

3081
02:04:15,260 --> 02:04:13,290
respect to the underground aspect of the

3082
02:04:18,020 --> 02:04:15,270
Rendlesham story but the important thing

3083
02:04:20,600 --> 02:04:18,030
is that it is an aspect to it now just

3084
02:04:22,670 --> 02:04:20,610
one other quick linkage to secret

3085
02:04:24,350 --> 02:04:22,680
installations in Britain the place in

3086
02:04:26,150 --> 02:04:24,360
also in the county of Wiltshire where

3087
02:04:27,770 --> 02:04:26,160
our effort low Manor is called port and

3088
02:04:29,570 --> 02:04:27,780
down pour down like the British

3089
02:04:32,390 --> 02:04:29,580
equivalent of fort detrick where a lot

3090
02:04:34,340 --> 02:04:32,400
of research is done in to exotic viruses

3091
02:04:36,710 --> 02:04:34,350
and biological warfare and there's a

3092
02:04:40,010 --> 02:04:36,720
story about personnel from Porton Down

3093
02:04:41,840 --> 02:04:40,020
being sent to Rendlesham forest a couple

3094
02:04:45,470 --> 02:04:41,850
of days after the incident in hazmat

3095
02:04:47,810 --> 02:04:45,480
suits and reportedly taking something

3096
02:04:49,910 --> 02:04:47,820
out of the woods and I and I tell this

3097
02:04:52,220 --> 02:04:49,920
story in the book you know of the port

3098
02:04:54,380 --> 02:04:52,230
and down link to another secret lair

3099
02:04:55,700 --> 02:04:54,390
location so there's a lot of a lot of

3100
02:04:57,730 --> 02:04:55,710
weird stuff like this in Britain

3101
02:05:00,110 --> 02:04:57,740
questions from Blaby boy during

3102
02:05:02,210 --> 02:05:00,120
researching you know these potential

3103
02:05:04,520 --> 02:05:02,220
locations that are tied to the UFO

3104
02:05:06,350 --> 02:05:04,530
subject and Muslim are underground in

3105
02:05:07,940 --> 02:05:06,360
his words did you ever hit pay dirt by

3106
02:05:10,850 --> 02:05:07,950
obtaining blueprints or planning

3107
02:05:13,340 --> 02:05:10,860
submission sourced via local councils or

3108
02:05:15,020 --> 02:05:13,350
libraries or similar bodies and he puts

3109
02:05:16,910 --> 02:05:15,030
as an aside I've always thought this to

3110
02:05:19,430 --> 02:05:16,920
be a weakness for the establishment do

3111
02:05:21,560 --> 02:05:19,440
we know of any of blueprints let's say

3112
02:05:23,360 --> 02:05:21,570
for underground facilities has this

3113
02:05:26,510 --> 02:05:23,370
stuff ever been inadvertently revealed

3114
02:05:29,090 --> 02:05:26,520
oh yeah I mean for example with the RAF

3115
02:05:30,830 --> 02:05:29,100
Ludlow Manor situation in Wiltshire

3116
02:05:32,150 --> 02:05:30,840
England a number of documents are

3117
02:05:34,370 --> 02:05:32,160
surfaced through the Freedom of

3118
02:05:36,110 --> 02:05:34,380
Information Act but actually for example

3119
02:05:38,720 --> 02:05:36,120
you have ever liked old war files

3120
02:05:40,370 --> 02:05:38,730
telling people you know people who help

3121
02:05:41,840 --> 02:05:40,380
positions of authority and governments

3122
02:05:43,250 --> 02:05:41,850
you know this is how you need to get

3123
02:05:45,050 --> 02:05:43,260
into the base in the event of a national

3124
02:05:47,330 --> 02:05:45,060
emergency you know you'll be brought so

3125
02:05:48,770 --> 02:05:47,340
entrance point to a or whatever you know

3126
02:05:50,750 --> 02:05:48,780
and it talks about the different levels

3127
02:05:52,490 --> 02:05:50,760
of the base and you know what would go

3128
02:05:53,930 --> 02:05:52,500
are in different places you know in the

3129
02:05:56,120 --> 02:05:53,940
event of a national emergency like a

3130
02:05:57,500 --> 02:05:56,130
nuclear strike by the Russians this is

3131
02:05:59,000 --> 02:05:57,510
where communications would be

3132
02:06:01,520 --> 02:05:59,010
coordinated from this is where

3133
02:06:04,520 --> 02:06:01,530
government continuation would be carried

3134
02:06:07,220 --> 02:06:04,530
out etc etc so we definitely have even

3135
02:06:09,500 --> 02:06:07,230
maps and drawings and and schematics

3136
02:06:11,480 --> 02:06:09,510
that sort of thing of radlo manner even

3137
02:06:13,850 --> 02:06:11,490
plans for example from the sixties

3138
02:06:16,040 --> 02:06:13,860
telling the local fire service you know

3139
02:06:17,360 --> 02:06:16,050
in the events of a underground fire at

3140
02:06:18,709 --> 02:06:17,370
the base this is where you need to come

3141
02:06:20,679 --> 02:06:18,719
to to put the fire out

3142
02:06:22,879 --> 02:06:20,689
so we have a lot of stuff like that and

3143
02:06:24,469 --> 02:06:22,889
certain plans have also been released

3144
02:06:26,359 --> 02:06:24,479
under the terms of the Freedom of

3145
02:06:28,159 --> 02:06:26,369
Information Act about volts at

3146
02:06:30,350 --> 02:06:28,169
wright-patterson now of course you know

3147
02:06:31,429 --> 02:06:30,360
we don't have anything like this would

3148
02:06:33,199 --> 02:06:31,439
be great if we did but we don't

3149
02:06:35,719 --> 02:06:33,209
everything like a you know a map saying

3150
02:06:38,020 --> 02:06:35,729
alien bodies thoughts or anything like

3151
02:06:40,250 --> 02:06:38,030
that but we do have evidence of maps

3152
02:06:42,350 --> 02:06:40,260
schematics again and drawings etc

3153
02:06:44,569 --> 02:06:42,360
showing underground facilities at the

3154
02:06:46,279 --> 02:06:44,579
base which you know are verifiable he

3155
02:06:49,129 --> 02:06:46,289
goes on to ask a rhetorical question

3156
02:06:51,560 --> 02:06:49,139
here and that is can a location ever

3157
02:06:53,359 --> 02:06:51,570
really be secret I'm just thinking that

3158
02:06:55,699 --> 02:06:53,369
once the locals get to hear of something

3159
02:06:57,799 --> 02:06:55,709
that then becomes an exercise in keeping

3160
02:06:59,870 --> 02:06:57,809
the contents or work of the location as

3161
02:07:02,179 --> 02:06:59,880
closed as possible and not to locate if

3162
02:07:04,429 --> 02:07:02,189
not the location itself and Jacques

3163
02:07:06,379 --> 02:07:04,439
Vallee of course would add a fairly

3164
02:07:07,850 --> 02:07:06,389
famous quota he has those two to these

3165
02:07:11,600 --> 02:07:07,860
underground bases who takes out the

3166
02:07:13,310 --> 02:07:11,610
garbage these actually good points you

3167
02:07:14,810 --> 02:07:13,320
know I mean I think the best thing we

3168
02:07:16,969 --> 02:07:14,820
can say about sort of secret

3169
02:07:19,159 --> 02:07:16,979
installations is that the work that's

3170
02:07:21,379 --> 02:07:19,169
undertaken there is secret but by

3171
02:07:24,049 --> 02:07:21,389
default the places aren't secret rather

3172
02:07:26,569 --> 02:07:24,059
places are off-limits so you know when

3173
02:07:28,909 --> 02:07:26,579
you have off-limits places undertaking

3174
02:07:32,000 --> 02:07:28,919
secret research by default they are

3175
02:07:33,770 --> 02:07:32,010
secrets now I think Jack's word

3176
02:07:35,899 --> 02:07:33,780
certainly a more applicable to things

3177
02:07:38,509 --> 02:07:35,909
like the Dulce base where you know that

3178
02:07:39,949 --> 02:07:38,519
the existence is denied so if you know

3179
02:07:41,629 --> 02:07:39,959
there's a lot of weird activity going on

3180
02:07:43,520 --> 02:07:41,639
the area that would give it away I don't

3181
02:07:46,370 --> 02:07:43,530
think you can apply that to area 51

3182
02:07:47,689 --> 02:07:46,380
because the base clearly does exist so

3183
02:07:49,939 --> 02:07:47,699
somebody really is taking out the

3184
02:07:52,699 --> 02:07:49,949
garbage you know and then suing our

3185
02:07:54,370 --> 02:07:52,709
government what I said in burning it

3186
02:07:56,629 --> 02:07:54,380
burning the garbage and then going

3187
02:07:57,890 --> 02:07:56,639
getting sick and then suing the

3188
02:07:59,899 --> 02:07:57,900
government and then having a government

3189
02:08:01,790 --> 02:07:59,909
say well we're gonna throw the case out

3190
02:08:04,850 --> 02:08:01,800
because there's no base there it doesn't

3191
02:08:07,909 --> 02:08:04,860
exist exactly this is the problem you

3192
02:08:09,979 --> 02:08:07,919
know so in other words we can we can

3193
02:08:12,379 --> 02:08:09,989
prove the existence of these places and

3194
02:08:13,969 --> 02:08:12,389
before we can to any more places here's

3195
02:08:16,159 --> 02:08:13,979
a place we got to go we have Nick

3196
02:08:24,390 --> 02:08:16,169
Redfern with Jean and Chris you're in

3197
02:08:28,779 --> 02:08:26,559
[Music]

3198
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eight seven seven three two seven zero

3298
02:12:45,050 --> 02:12:41,689
hi this is Nate Pope you're listening to

3299
02:12:48,820 --> 02:12:45,060
the parrot Rock I'm not counting the

3300
02:12:51,620 --> 02:12:48,830
number of hoes but he's talking about

3301
02:12:53,020 --> 02:12:51,630
weird stuff you're in the parent asks

3302
02:12:55,669 --> 02:12:53,030
with gene and Chris and Nick Redfern

3303
02:12:58,280 --> 02:12:55,679
author of keep out and you were in the

3304
02:13:00,890 --> 02:12:58,290
middle of an interesting discussion

3305
02:13:02,839 --> 02:13:00,900
let's continue yeah I mean I think you

3306
02:13:04,700 --> 02:13:02,849
know the nobody doubts the existence of

3307
02:13:06,800 --> 02:13:04,710
many of these places the big problem is

3308
02:13:07,820 --> 02:13:06,810
you know that unless you're in the know

3309
02:13:09,709 --> 02:13:07,830
so to speak

3310
02:13:12,260 --> 02:13:09,719
there's just no way to access them and

3311
02:13:15,050 --> 02:13:12,270
with everything undertaken in deep

3312
02:13:17,390 --> 02:13:15,060
secrecy it's no wonder that you know we

3313
02:13:19,910 --> 02:13:17,400
get as many truths as we do legends and

3314
02:13:22,250 --> 02:13:19,920
stories and tales come out of them you

3315
02:13:23,930 --> 02:13:22,260
know so I think in that respect this is

3316
02:13:26,600 --> 02:13:23,940
what makes it difficult to really get to

3317
02:13:28,250 --> 02:13:26,610
the heart of the issue and why you know

3318
02:13:30,280 --> 02:13:28,260
are in the book I address all the

3319
02:13:32,750 --> 02:13:30,290
different theories because it would be a

3320
02:13:35,450 --> 02:13:32,760
basically bill lying if I was to say

3321
02:13:38,240 --> 02:13:35,460
they're aliens stored at area 51 yeah I

3322
02:13:41,570 --> 02:13:38,250
might sell you know 10,000 more books

3323
02:13:43,820 --> 02:13:41,580
but by doing so I'd be cheating myself

3324
02:13:45,649 --> 02:13:43,830
you know you've got to point out to

3325
02:13:47,899 --> 02:13:45,659
people that the UFO stories could be a

3326
02:13:50,510 --> 02:13:47,909
cover for military activity and there

3327
02:13:53,390 --> 02:13:50,520
could be as many mind games going on as

3328
02:13:55,490 --> 02:13:53,400
there is legitimate leaks of data you

3329
02:13:57,470 --> 02:13:55,500
know none I don't think we need to be we

3330
02:13:59,479 --> 02:13:57,480
need to investigate these places we need

3331
02:14:01,910 --> 02:13:59,489
to study them but we need to be grounded

3332
02:14:03,200 --> 02:14:01,920
as well Bob every boy has some more

3333
02:14:06,080 --> 02:14:03,210
questions here if you're if you're

3334
02:14:08,209 --> 02:14:06,090
interested here's an interesting one is

3335
02:14:10,490 --> 02:14:08,219
there a worldwide top-five list of

3336
02:14:12,800 --> 02:14:10,500
secret regions that has changed over

3337
02:14:15,410 --> 02:14:12,810
time as populations have migrated and

3338
02:14:17,959 --> 02:14:15,420
expanded ie places that might once have

3339
02:14:20,439 --> 02:14:17,969
been ideal location or no longer as

3340
02:14:23,000 --> 02:14:20,449
viable due to encroaching populations is

3341
02:14:24,649 --> 02:14:23,010
Australia or Africa perhaps Antarctica

3342
02:14:28,609 --> 02:14:24,659
the preferred locations at the moment

3343
02:14:30,560 --> 02:14:28,619
any indications of some of these super

3344
02:14:33,560 --> 02:14:30,570
remote areas on the planet having

3345
02:14:36,169 --> 02:14:33,570
locations good question I mean I think

3346
02:14:37,760 --> 02:14:36,179
you know it's difficult to know I mean

3347
02:14:39,169 --> 02:14:37,770
you know there are secret locations

3348
02:14:42,080 --> 02:14:39,179
there we don't know about and that's

3349
02:14:44,660 --> 02:14:42,090
because they're still secret but I think

3350
02:14:47,209 --> 02:14:44,670
you know certainly places like Pine Gap

3351
02:14:49,580 --> 02:14:47,219
you know the the geography and the sort

3352
02:14:51,439 --> 02:14:49,590
of regional distribution of Australia

3353
02:14:52,969 --> 02:14:51,449
Pine gaps never going to be a

3354
02:14:54,649 --> 02:14:52,979
place that's gonna be you know

3355
02:14:56,419 --> 02:14:54,659
surrounded by cities or whatever he's

3356
02:14:58,699 --> 02:14:56,429
just not going to happen and so in other

3357
02:15:00,890 --> 02:14:58,709
words governments actually don't need to

3358
02:15:03,739 --> 02:15:00,900
place their installations in you know

3359
02:15:05,569 --> 02:15:03,749
remote fortresses so to speak I mean you

3360
02:15:06,649 --> 02:15:05,579
know a lot of people think area 51 you

3361
02:15:09,830 --> 02:15:06,659
know you look at the Nevada desert

3362
02:15:11,779 --> 02:15:09,840
people think area 51 is buried in some

3363
02:15:13,969 --> 02:15:11,789
remote parts of the Nevada desert it

3364
02:15:16,580 --> 02:15:13,979
actually isn't it's only 90 miles from

3365
02:15:18,439 --> 02:15:16,590
downtown Las Vegas you know you leave

3366
02:15:20,810 --> 02:15:18,449
Las Vegas and put your foot down hard on

3367
02:15:22,279 --> 02:15:20,820
the accelerator in theory if you weren't

3368
02:15:24,919 --> 02:15:22,289
stopped you could be there within an

3369
02:15:27,469 --> 02:15:24,929
hour you know 90 miles is no distance

3370
02:15:29,449 --> 02:15:27,479
the problem is you can only get within

3371
02:15:31,640 --> 02:15:29,459
like 15 miles of the base before you

3372
02:15:32,959 --> 02:15:31,650
start seeing security signs and then the

3373
02:15:34,969 --> 02:15:32,969
security goon squads

3374
02:15:38,479 --> 02:15:34,979
will stop here and you know you face

3375
02:15:41,479 --> 02:15:38,489
arrest etc so in other words bases don't

3376
02:15:42,319 --> 02:15:41,489
need to be situated a thousand miles in

3377
02:15:44,330 --> 02:15:42,329
the middle of a desert

3378
02:15:46,459 --> 02:15:44,340
you know like with area 51 they can be

3379
02:15:48,799 --> 02:15:46,469
90 miles from Vegas and you still have

3380
02:15:50,629 --> 02:15:48,809
no idea what's going on there that's a

3381
02:15:52,399 --> 02:15:50,639
good answer for that here's another one

3382
02:15:55,100 --> 02:15:52,409
I'm guessing the book only covers a

3383
02:15:57,319 --> 02:15:55,110
small list of locations worldwide so

3384
02:15:59,479 --> 02:15:57,329
does your research have an indicative

3385
02:16:03,020 --> 02:15:59,489
number of possible known unknown

3386
02:16:04,459 --> 02:16:03,030
locations well I try to you know cover

3387
02:16:07,669 --> 02:16:04,469
the entire planners I mean obviously

3388
02:16:09,919 --> 02:16:07,679
this stuff like I mean area 51 hangar 18

3389
02:16:12,560 --> 02:16:09,929
Dulce you know there be us

3390
02:16:15,770 --> 02:16:12,570
I mean Bentwaters London Underground

3391
02:16:18,709 --> 02:16:15,780
odlo manner that's England time gaps

3392
02:16:21,500 --> 02:16:18,719
Australia actually talk even about some

3393
02:16:24,319 --> 02:16:21,510
sort of Russian area 51 or several row

3394
02:16:26,989 --> 02:16:24,329
so called Russian area 51's if you like

3395
02:16:29,540 --> 02:16:26,999
and even the rumors about some sort of

3396
02:16:31,520 --> 02:16:29,550
classified military facility on the far

3397
02:16:33,259 --> 02:16:31,530
side of the Moon kind of some people

3398
02:16:34,490 --> 02:16:33,269
suggest you like a clandestine space

3399
02:16:37,400 --> 02:16:34,500
program you know that's running

3400
02:16:39,559 --> 02:16:37,410
alongside but not with NASA you know

3401
02:16:42,439 --> 02:16:39,569
what let's look at that for a moment the

3402
02:16:44,629 --> 02:16:42,449
so-called alleged secret space program I

3403
02:16:46,099 --> 02:16:44,639
mean we've had a couple of guests who

3404
02:16:48,889 --> 02:16:46,109
come on the power cast from time to time

3405
02:16:51,379 --> 02:16:48,899
they say hey what this public space

3406
02:16:54,110 --> 02:16:51,389
program is just window dressing while

3407
02:16:56,330 --> 02:16:54,120
we've been sort of winding it down or

3408
02:16:57,799 --> 02:16:56,340
trying to follow it off and private

3409
02:16:59,919 --> 02:16:57,809
industry and maybe just sending space

3410
02:17:03,080 --> 02:16:59,929
probes out there or sending out

3411
02:17:04,820 --> 02:17:03,090
telescopes to look for et four or five

3412
02:17:08,060 --> 02:17:04,830
hundred light years away

3413
02:17:10,640 --> 02:17:08,070
we've had that secret space program

3414
02:17:13,010 --> 02:17:10,650
going on all this time we have bases on

3415
02:17:15,020 --> 02:17:13,020
the moon whatever what's the story what

3416
02:17:16,879 --> 02:17:15,030
is the evidence for it well you know I

3417
02:17:18,890 --> 02:17:16,889
mean this is you know this sort of

3418
02:17:21,080 --> 02:17:18,900
two-pronged approach you know the idea

3419
02:17:23,240 --> 02:17:21,090
that there's a the nor the recognized

3420
02:17:25,160 --> 02:17:23,250
space program of NASA which is now I

3421
02:17:27,080 --> 02:17:25,170
don't think anybody doubts in decline

3422
02:17:28,430 --> 02:17:27,090
you know when you've got a kind of as

3423
02:17:30,080 --> 02:17:28,440
the Russians if you can send an

3424
02:17:32,150 --> 02:17:30,090
astronaut up on one of their craft it's

3425
02:17:34,490 --> 02:17:32,160
you know it's getting pretty bleak but

3426
02:17:36,230 --> 02:17:34,500
you know then does that mean I was just

3427
02:17:38,240 --> 02:17:36,240
winding it down period or is there

3428
02:17:39,830 --> 02:17:38,250
something sort of super-secret going on

3429
02:17:41,870 --> 02:17:39,840
you know behind the scenes that's the

3430
02:17:44,629 --> 02:17:41,880
big question now what we do know for

3431
02:17:47,300 --> 02:17:44,639
certain is that back in the late 50s the

3432
02:17:49,850 --> 02:17:47,310
US Army initiated a very ambitious

3433
02:17:52,910 --> 02:17:49,860
program called project horizon the idea

3434
02:17:56,030 --> 02:17:52,920
was to have some sort of almost like a

3435
02:17:59,540 --> 02:17:56,040
lock of north pole or South Pole outpost

3436
02:18:01,160 --> 02:17:59,550
on the moon by 1965 and the plan was

3437
02:18:02,990 --> 02:18:01,170
that this would be like a relatively

3438
02:18:05,180 --> 02:18:03,000
rudimentary thing you know like the

3439
02:18:06,800 --> 02:18:05,190
equivalents of maybe seven or eight 20

3440
02:18:09,500 --> 02:18:06,810
foot diameter igloos that would be

3441
02:18:11,240 --> 02:18:09,510
connected by tunnels or cylinders or

3442
02:18:13,580 --> 02:18:11,250
whatever and that over time it would be

3443
02:18:15,050 --> 02:18:13,590
added to and added to where sort of 20

3444
02:18:18,560 --> 02:18:15,060
years down the line it would be a fairly

3445
02:18:20,419 --> 02:18:18,570
sophisticated installation and the

3446
02:18:22,010 --> 02:18:20,429
project horizon files have never been

3447
02:18:23,419 --> 02:18:22,020
Declassified through the Freedom of

3448
02:18:25,820 --> 02:18:23,429
Information and you can find them online

3449
02:18:28,250 --> 02:18:25,830
and they run to hundreds of pages and

3450
02:18:30,410 --> 02:18:28,260
very extensive documents that talk about

3451
02:18:32,810 --> 02:18:30,420
how you know water would be obtained and

3452
02:18:35,270 --> 02:18:32,820
oxygen would be circulated so he goes

3453
02:18:37,730 --> 02:18:35,280
into the very big for the technological

3454
02:18:40,339 --> 02:18:37,740
aspects of achieving a secret base on

3455
02:18:42,379 --> 02:18:40,349
the on the moon and and maintaining and

3456
02:18:44,990 --> 02:18:42,389
running it and and adding to its

3457
02:18:47,450 --> 02:18:45,000
construction now what's interesting is

3458
02:18:49,070 --> 02:18:47,460
that the construction of the base on the

3459
02:18:52,390 --> 02:18:49,080
part of the military which was going to

3460
02:18:54,830 --> 02:18:52,400
be done totally outside of NASA began by

3461
02:18:58,339 --> 02:18:54,840
1965 that was the plan to have the first

3462
02:19:00,650 --> 02:18:58,349
part of it up and running now ostensibly

3463
02:19:03,260 --> 02:19:00,660
we told that the program was cancelled

3464
02:19:05,959 --> 02:19:03,270
for two reasons one budgets and the

3465
02:19:07,940 --> 02:19:05,969
other technical capabilities or lack of

3466
02:19:10,550 --> 02:19:07,950
capabilities back in the early to mid

3467
02:19:14,169 --> 02:19:10,560
sixties now everybody knows here the

3468
02:19:17,900 --> 02:19:14,179
first moon landing occurred in July 1969

3469
02:19:18,410 --> 02:19:17,910
but back in 65 which was the year when

3470
02:19:19,820 --> 02:19:18,420
the Millett

3471
02:19:22,580 --> 02:19:19,830
she was planning to have this base up

3472
02:19:24,860 --> 02:19:22,590
and running we had the testimony of a

3473
02:19:26,390 --> 02:19:24,870
man named Karl Wolfe Karl Wolfe has gone

3474
02:19:30,650 --> 02:19:26,400
on record we just have a verifiable

3475
02:19:34,490 --> 02:19:30,660
military background a stating that in 65

3476
02:19:37,250 --> 02:19:34,500
he was exposed to a story while working

3477
02:19:38,929 --> 02:19:37,260
on a NASA related program during the

3478
02:19:41,270 --> 02:19:38,939
course of his Air Force employments

3479
02:19:43,250 --> 02:19:41,280
where he was told that's mastered

3480
02:19:45,980 --> 02:19:43,260
photographed on the far side of the moon

3481
02:19:49,010 --> 02:19:45,990
in 65 some sort of what looked like a

3482
02:19:50,630 --> 02:19:49,020
structured facility NASA had no idea who

3483
02:19:53,270 --> 02:19:50,640
built it or what it was and of course

3484
02:19:55,219 --> 02:19:53,280
the first tendencies to think it's got

3485
02:19:56,719 --> 02:19:55,229
to be aliens because you know Armstrong

3486
02:19:59,900 --> 02:19:56,729
and Aldrin hadn't even landed on the

3487
02:20:02,120 --> 02:19:59,910
moon yet this was four years later and

3488
02:20:04,070 --> 02:20:02,130
maybe it is May there is something there

3489
02:20:05,660 --> 02:20:04,080
maybe there's an alien installation but

3490
02:20:08,510 --> 02:20:05,670
on the other hand when we find in this

3491
02:20:11,060 --> 02:20:08,520
very year 65 the military was planning

3492
02:20:13,969 --> 02:20:11,070
to get some sort of a small rudimentary

3493
02:20:16,100 --> 02:20:13,979
base on the moon and then add to it you

3494
02:20:19,219 --> 02:20:16,110
know timewise it fits in we want the

3495
02:20:21,170 --> 02:20:19,229
project horizon reports talked about so

3496
02:20:23,380 --> 02:20:21,180
you know could we actually be seeing

3497
02:20:26,150 --> 02:20:23,390
evidence of some sort of clandestine

3498
02:20:28,040 --> 02:20:26,160
space program you know in the testimony

3499
02:20:30,500 --> 02:20:28,050
of Karl Wolfe from the project horizon

3500
02:20:33,170 --> 02:20:30,510
files you know III don't rule that out

3501
02:20:34,850 --> 02:20:33,180
and I think you know if you look at all

3502
02:20:37,910 --> 02:20:34,860
the work that NASA has done over the

3503
02:20:40,010 --> 02:20:37,920
years to just kind of you know throw it

3504
02:20:41,900 --> 02:20:40,020
out the window and saying you know no

3505
02:20:44,660 --> 02:20:41,910
more astronauts no more space shuttle

3506
02:20:46,250 --> 02:20:44,670
no more nothing basically you know that

3507
02:20:48,920 --> 02:20:46,260
kind of just flies in the face of

3508
02:20:51,710 --> 02:20:48,930
everything and but what's interesting

3509
02:20:54,830 --> 02:20:51,720
about the project horizon report is that

3510
02:20:57,560 --> 02:20:54,840
the the reason for the construction of

3511
02:20:59,990 --> 02:20:57,570
the base had less to do with advancing

3512
02:21:01,340 --> 02:21:00,000
you know astronomical scientific

3513
02:21:04,460 --> 02:21:01,350
revelations and more to do with

3514
02:21:06,560 --> 02:21:04,470
militarized in space which sadly is

3515
02:21:09,110 --> 02:21:06,570
inevitable you know and not surprising

3516
02:21:12,440 --> 02:21:09,120
at all so it wouldn't surprise me again

3517
02:21:14,360 --> 02:21:12,450
if there is a secret space program but

3518
02:21:16,480 --> 02:21:14,370
if there is I would suspect a fair

3519
02:21:19,910 --> 02:21:16,490
percentage of it is based around

3520
02:21:22,450 --> 02:21:19,920
militarizing space and you know and the

3521
02:21:25,070 --> 02:21:22,460
strengthening the sort of the military

3522
02:21:27,890 --> 02:21:25,080
capabilities rather than you know just a

3523
02:21:28,800 --> 02:21:27,900
purist scientific approach well we also

3524
02:21:32,550 --> 02:21:28,810
have the entry

3525
02:21:35,159 --> 02:21:32,560
revelation that our our British hacker

3526
02:21:37,439 --> 02:21:35,169
Gary McKinnon came up with about 155

3527
02:21:40,079 --> 02:21:37,449
off-planet naval officers of if memory

3528
02:21:41,750 --> 02:21:40,089
serves me correct what do you think

3529
02:21:43,800 --> 02:21:41,760
about that I mean is that a smoking gun

3530
02:21:45,899 --> 02:21:43,810
a piece of data or

3531
02:21:48,239 --> 02:21:45,909
yeah I mean McKinnon story is an

3532
02:21:50,609 --> 02:21:48,249
interesting one I mean Gary McKinnon you

3533
02:21:52,500 --> 02:21:50,619
know you can look I mean McKinnon making

3534
02:21:54,359 --> 02:21:52,510
his actions you know what to me was

3535
02:21:56,250 --> 02:21:54,369
stupid and he landed himself in the

3536
02:21:58,619 --> 02:21:56,260
inevitable position that he would have

3537
02:22:01,139 --> 02:21:58,629
landed himself and you know it's like

3538
02:22:03,929 --> 02:22:01,149
with me if I when I do research you know

3539
02:22:05,789 --> 02:22:03,939
I interview people and I go after free

3540
02:22:08,699 --> 02:22:05,799
Ruth nation that files and things like

3541
02:22:10,859 --> 02:22:08,709
that we go to this we have to look for

3542
02:22:13,139 --> 02:22:10,869
this piece of information very very

3543
02:22:15,510 --> 02:22:13,149
critical importance we have Nick Redfern

3544
02:22:26,291 --> 02:22:15,520
the book is called keep out with gene

3545
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are you tired of searching for great

3546
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talk radio more important search free

3547
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over we are the GCM radio network is

3548
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there a secret UFO agenda to strange

3549
02:22:46,780 --> 02:22:44,421
creatures from the darkest corners of

3550
02:22:49,541 --> 02:22:46,790
the mind roam the earth is there

3551
02:22:53,171 --> 02:22:49,551
evidence for mind control time travel or

3552
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devious government conspiracies find out

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the inside scoop on the latest

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conspiracies paranormal activity and at

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3562
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3563
02:23:29,831 --> 02:23:24,351
to Mister UFO at web TV dotnet that's

3564
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mr. UFO at web TV dotnet find out what

3565
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if you constantly feel rundown and tired

3566
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your ph level might be low and your body

3567
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could be full of toxins if what you

3568
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drink is not at a ph level of 8 or

3569
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higher you are inviting bacteria and

3570
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acid to thrive in your body but there is

3571
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something you can do simply add 10 drops

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3574
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3575
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your pH balance to optimum levels Alka

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3579
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3580
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toxins and helping you regain energy and

3581
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bacteria and toxins cannot survive in an

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alkaline high ph environment

3584
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3591
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problem go away by yourself but with the

3593
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3600
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3602
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3611
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3613
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from the IRS for three decades and he

3615
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3618
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think you'd be where you are a dick

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3620
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neighbors thankful for the unemployment

3622
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checks since you were laid off and

3623
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placing your child's name on the angel

3624
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tree in hopes of a Christmas gift along

3625
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with thousands of other Americans as you

3626
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3627
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craziness there's only one thing you can

3629
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3638
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3639
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forward slash Alex remember you can bet

3640
02:26:45,889 --> 02:26:43,610
hello this is rosemary ellen guiley and

3641
02:26:57,740 --> 02:26:45,899
you're listening to the podcast the gold

3642
02:26:59,840 --> 02:26:57,750
standard a paranormal radio with Gina

3643
02:27:01,910 --> 02:26:59,850
and Chris you're in the para cast with

3644
02:27:04,790 --> 02:27:01,920
Nick Redfern the book is called keep out

3645
02:27:07,160 --> 02:27:04,800
the the whole issue you know McKinnon is

3646
02:27:08,840 --> 02:27:07,170
an interesting one I mean yes he

3647
02:27:11,330 --> 02:27:08,850
uncovered some intriguing material he

3648
02:27:12,920 --> 02:27:11,340
talked about for example reading files

3649
02:27:15,559 --> 02:27:12,930
and what I described as non-terrestrial

3650
02:27:17,480 --> 02:27:15,569
officers which you know you can't get

3651
02:27:21,139 --> 02:27:17,490
more to the point if that suggests been

3652
02:27:23,540 --> 02:27:21,149
sort of like an off planet slate almost

3653
02:27:25,429 --> 02:27:23,550
if you like of personnel you know it's

3654
02:27:27,620 --> 02:27:25,439
difficult to reconcile it in any other

3655
02:27:29,900 --> 02:27:27,630
way you know particularly the fact that

3656
02:27:32,330 --> 02:27:29,910
he did he hack NASA you know and

3657
02:27:33,950 --> 02:27:32,340
uncovered that material the government

3658
02:27:36,530 --> 02:27:33,960
for the most part hasn't commented on

3659
02:27:39,559 --> 02:27:36,540
you know what these documents were or

3660
02:27:41,809 --> 02:27:39,569
what that title or term means they focus

3661
02:27:45,110 --> 02:27:41,819
more on trying to prosecute McKinnon now

3662
02:27:48,320 --> 02:27:45,120
you know a lot of people you have

3663
02:27:50,120 --> 02:27:48,330
different views on on McKinnon you know

3664
02:27:52,670 --> 02:27:50,130
some people view was like a valiant

3665
02:27:54,980 --> 02:27:52,680
crusader other people view him as an

3666
02:27:57,020 --> 02:27:54,990
idiot who was sort of you know it was

3667
02:27:58,940 --> 02:27:57,030
his own fault and inevitable that he

3668
02:28:00,920 --> 02:27:58,950
would land himself in the position that

3669
02:28:03,440 --> 02:28:00,930
he now finds himself you know I mean I

3670
02:28:05,870 --> 02:28:03,450
don't encourage anyone I never would to

3671
02:28:07,460 --> 02:28:05,880
sort of hack the Pentagon because you

3672
02:28:09,230 --> 02:28:07,470
just asking for trouble and for the most

3673
02:28:10,880 --> 02:28:09,240
part I'm not gonna find anything so the

3674
02:28:13,250 --> 02:28:10,890
idea that you won't get caught well MIT

3675
02:28:14,960 --> 02:28:13,260
found out and won't get either jailed or

3676
02:28:17,420 --> 02:28:14,970
attempted to be jailed in the process is

3677
02:28:19,849 --> 02:28:17,430
ridiculous you know I actually don't

3678
02:28:21,710 --> 02:28:19,859
think it sort of helps our cause you

3679
02:28:23,990 --> 02:28:21,720
know it might sound great for some sort

3680
02:28:26,510 --> 02:28:24,000
of techno conspiracy thriller but

3681
02:28:28,219 --> 02:28:26,520
running around hacking the Pentagon you

3682
02:28:30,410 --> 02:28:28,229
all that's going to do is and get your

3683
02:28:32,750 --> 02:28:30,420
landed in jail and hardly any

3684
02:28:35,179 --> 02:28:32,760
information in the process and I think

3685
02:28:37,610 --> 02:28:35,189
for that reason that's why you know

3686
02:28:40,429 --> 02:28:37,620
MacKinnon within the UFO field you know

3687
02:28:41,870 --> 02:28:40,439
he attracts champions and people

3688
02:28:43,670 --> 02:28:41,880
interesting he's an idiot for example

3689
02:28:45,670 --> 02:28:43,680
you know you can find whole websites

3690
02:28:47,960 --> 02:28:45,680
that sort of champion McKinnon's actions

3691
02:28:50,450 --> 02:28:47,970
Paul Kimball a good friend of mine in

3692
02:28:52,700 --> 02:28:50,460
Canada who runs red star films and made

3693
02:28:53,960 --> 02:28:52,710
a number of UFO films Paul has no

3694
02:28:56,690 --> 02:28:53,970
sympathy

3695
02:29:00,219 --> 02:28:56,700
at all and I think somebody like

3696
02:29:02,599 --> 02:29:00,229
McKinnon attracts that kind of you know

3697
02:29:04,519 --> 02:29:02,609
totally black-and-white scenario where

3698
02:29:06,740 --> 02:29:04,529
one person takes this view one takes

3699
02:29:09,019 --> 02:29:06,750
another but regardless of how we view

3700
02:29:10,969 --> 02:29:09,029
MacKinnon there's absolutely you know

3701
02:29:13,790 --> 02:29:10,979
the one thing we cannot take away from

3702
02:29:16,700 --> 02:29:13,800
is that while looking for material on

3703
02:29:18,710 --> 02:29:16,710
UFOs and you know NASA NASA's

3704
02:29:20,540 --> 02:29:18,720
involvement in such issues he came

3705
02:29:23,030 --> 02:29:20,550
across this list that mentioned these

3706
02:29:25,940 --> 02:29:23,040
so-called non-terrestrial officers and

3707
02:29:27,290 --> 02:29:25,950
this isn't an area that well as I said

3708
02:29:29,059 --> 02:29:27,300
what's what's intriguing is that while

3709
02:29:31,070 --> 02:29:29,069
the government has been quite vocal on

3710
02:29:32,450 --> 02:29:31,080
its attempts to try and get MacKinnon

3711
02:29:35,059 --> 02:29:32,460
brought over from the UK to be

3712
02:29:37,099 --> 02:29:35,069
prosecuted and jailed in the US there's

3713
02:29:39,260 --> 02:29:37,109
been no talk at all about what this term

3714
02:29:40,729 --> 02:29:39,270
non-terrestrial officers means you know

3715
02:29:42,889 --> 02:29:40,739
the emphasis has been on the fact that

3716
02:29:44,960 --> 02:29:42,899
he hacked not on the material that he

3717
02:29:45,290 --> 02:29:44,970
said he found first any more questions

3718
02:29:48,440 --> 02:29:45,300
left

3719
02:29:50,330 --> 02:29:48,450
yeah Angelo of course our healthily

3720
02:29:52,880 --> 02:29:50,340
skeptical moderator has an interesting

3721
02:29:54,559 --> 02:29:52,890
question that's news to me

3722
02:29:56,690 --> 02:29:54,569
and he goes I don't think I've ever

3723
02:29:58,370 --> 02:29:56,700
heard Nick talk about his experience on

3724
02:30:01,309 --> 02:29:58,380
Penn & Teller's show I'd like to hear

3725
02:30:06,400 --> 02:30:01,319
his thoughts on that you are been a

3726
02:30:09,620 --> 02:30:06,410
teller to do with UFOs it was about

3727
02:30:11,000 --> 02:30:09,630
probably six six seven maybe eight years

3728
02:30:13,550 --> 02:30:11,010
ago now forgetting there something like

3729
02:30:17,240 --> 02:30:13,560
that blue certainly mid-2000s it was

3730
02:30:18,740 --> 02:30:17,250
actually a ghost hunting show what

3731
02:30:20,479 --> 02:30:18,750
happened was I got a call asking if I

3732
02:30:23,210 --> 02:30:20,489
could you know appear um if I was

3733
02:30:26,000 --> 02:30:23,220
willing to appear on the show and you

3734
02:30:27,830 --> 02:30:26,010
know go on a ghost hunt in exercise so

3735
02:30:30,080 --> 02:30:27,840
we went out to a town in East Texas

3736
02:30:32,300 --> 02:30:30,090
called Jefferson Jefferson's an old town

3737
02:30:34,340 --> 02:30:32,310
a lot of history to it and a lot of

3738
02:30:36,200 --> 02:30:34,350
haunted hotels and buildings and things

3739
02:30:38,269 --> 02:30:36,210
like that so we went out there and even

3740
02:30:39,979 --> 02:30:38,279
like a nighttime ghost hunt you know and

3741
02:30:42,400 --> 02:30:39,989
stalked out some of these haunted rooms

3742
02:30:44,960 --> 02:30:42,410
and I was there with a couple of other

3743
02:30:46,880 --> 02:30:44,970
ghost hunters you know who had all this

3744
02:30:48,800 --> 02:30:46,890
sort of equipment for checking

3745
02:30:50,780 --> 02:30:48,810
temperatures and things like that you

3746
02:30:52,059 --> 02:30:50,790
know I buy my own admission I'm not a

3747
02:30:54,500 --> 02:30:52,069
ghost hunter you know I'm not really

3748
02:30:55,490 --> 02:30:54,510
qualified in those areas other than the

3749
02:30:57,769 --> 02:30:55,500
fact that I'm interested in the

3750
02:31:00,710 --> 02:30:57,779
paranormal so I kind of went along more

3751
02:31:02,540 --> 02:31:00,720
as an observer and we did the

3752
02:31:04,490 --> 02:31:02,550
investigation you know we sort of

3753
02:31:05,870 --> 02:31:04,500
checked out the haunted houses and

3754
02:31:06,960 --> 02:31:05,880
interviewed different people and stuff

3755
02:31:09,030 --> 02:31:06,970
like that

3756
02:31:11,880 --> 02:31:09,040
a lot of people don't realize that you

3757
02:31:14,099 --> 02:31:11,890
know with the Penn and Teller show you

3758
02:31:15,750 --> 02:31:14,109
know I never got to meet Penn & Teller

3759
02:31:17,940 --> 02:31:15,760
what happens is you know the program's

3760
02:31:19,440 --> 02:31:17,950
filmed the footage is obtained and then

3761
02:31:21,179 --> 02:31:19,450
it's taken back to the studio and then

3762
02:31:23,820 --> 02:31:21,189
Penn & Teller watch it not for their

3763
02:31:26,790 --> 02:31:23,830
comments over the top later on you know

3764
02:31:30,090 --> 02:31:26,800
you don't interact with them that kind

3765
02:31:32,040 --> 02:31:30,100
of doesn't sound very hopeful well it's

3766
02:31:33,719 --> 02:31:32,050
kind of like you know some documentaries

3767
02:31:36,059 --> 02:31:33,729
you know if you're on a live TV show

3768
02:31:38,639 --> 02:31:36,069
you're there with a host right then you

3769
02:31:40,469 --> 02:31:38,649
watch something like UFO Hunters which

3770
02:31:42,690 --> 02:31:40,479
is like reality driven you know the

3771
02:31:44,610 --> 02:31:42,700
three guys are there interviewing the

3772
02:31:46,340 --> 02:31:44,620
people or if it's something like ancient

3773
02:31:48,750 --> 02:31:46,350
aliens you know it's head-and-shoulders

3774
02:31:50,700 --> 02:31:48,760
interviews and then like a voiceover

3775
02:31:52,559 --> 02:31:50,710
Penn & Teller show is a bit different

3776
02:31:54,210 --> 02:31:52,569
because you know you get that the

3777
02:31:56,190 --> 02:31:54,220
footage is the people are interviewed

3778
02:31:58,650 --> 02:31:56,200
and then Penn & Teller sit down and

3779
02:32:00,690 --> 02:31:58,660
watch it and offer their views later so

3780
02:32:02,340 --> 02:32:00,700
for me I think I would have enjoyed it

3781
02:32:03,900 --> 02:32:02,350
more I had the chance to sort of sit

3782
02:32:06,150 --> 02:32:03,910
there we could have really got a heated

3783
02:32:08,760 --> 02:32:06,160
debate you know between the three of us

3784
02:32:10,469 --> 02:32:08,770
that would be cool TV but you know they

3785
02:32:14,040 --> 02:32:10,479
said the filming with me was done in

3786
02:32:15,599 --> 02:32:14,050
East Texas and and the filming with Penn

3787
02:32:18,840 --> 02:32:15,609
& Teller was done wherever you know

3788
02:32:21,570 --> 02:32:18,850
their respective homes are or videos or

3789
02:32:23,429 --> 02:32:21,580
whatever so you know you have no sort of

3790
02:32:25,019 --> 02:32:23,439
into a direct interaction with them I

3791
02:32:26,729 --> 02:32:25,029
haven't watched this show so I don't

3792
02:32:28,080 --> 02:32:26,739
know actually I've never watched the

3793
02:32:29,309 --> 02:32:28,090
show because I don't have the chat I've

3794
02:32:31,260 --> 02:32:29,319
even what's the one I'm on because I

3795
02:32:33,450 --> 02:32:31,270
don't know the channel on our TV that

3796
02:32:35,010 --> 02:32:33,460
it's broadcast on there's other

3797
02:32:37,320 --> 02:32:35,020
questions but we've already answered

3798
02:32:39,510 --> 02:32:37,330
them basically so that that was kind of

3799
02:32:42,679 --> 02:32:39,520
the last question from okay that was a

3800
02:32:45,510 --> 02:32:42,689
fascinating bunch of questions there and

3801
02:32:47,400 --> 02:32:45,520
I think the best thing we can ask the

3802
02:32:50,400 --> 02:32:47,410
remaining couple of minutes is Nick

3803
02:32:52,440 --> 02:32:50,410
Redfern if you had to do the book over

3804
02:32:53,580 --> 02:32:52,450
again are there other areas you could

3805
02:32:56,639 --> 02:32:53,590
have added or maybe you gotten in the

3806
02:32:58,290 --> 02:32:56,649
book larger well yeah I mean you know

3807
02:32:59,790 --> 02:32:58,300
what one of the things is that you know

3808
02:33:01,440 --> 02:32:59,800
people say to me who you made the book

3809
02:33:04,309 --> 02:33:01,450
big well yeah I could but contractually

3810
02:33:06,630 --> 02:33:04,319
I'm limited to like 65 thousand words I

3811
02:33:09,540 --> 02:33:06,640
contract we cannot make the books for

3812
02:33:12,360 --> 02:33:09,550
new page longer than that but you know

3813
02:33:14,099 --> 02:33:12,370
that's how it works you know but yeah

3814
02:33:16,260 --> 02:33:14,109
there are other places I could have put

3815
02:33:18,330 --> 02:33:16,270
in some of the stories you know

3816
02:33:20,460 --> 02:33:18,340
certainly aren't Chaplin you know I've

3817
02:33:22,830 --> 02:33:20,470
heard stories where somebody's tall

3818
02:33:25,110 --> 02:33:22,840
for example that they were we're aware

3819
02:33:27,360 --> 02:33:25,120
of an alien body supposedly stored at

3820
02:33:29,460 --> 02:33:27,370
Fort Dietrich in Maryland but that's

3821
02:33:30,809 --> 02:33:29,470
literally all they knew you know so

3822
02:33:33,330 --> 02:33:30,819
there's a lot of stories where I have

3823
02:33:35,400 --> 02:33:33,340
fragments of information that would you

3824
02:33:38,190 --> 02:33:35,410
know make an interesting little couple

3825
02:33:41,429 --> 02:33:38,200
of paragraphs so you know there's always

3826
02:33:43,800 --> 02:33:41,439
scope and range to add things here and

3827
02:33:45,300 --> 02:33:43,810
there but I think you know what I tried

3828
02:33:47,729 --> 02:33:45,310
to do with the book was cover the most

3829
02:33:49,080 --> 02:33:47,739
significant ones its most significant

3830
02:33:53,010 --> 02:33:49,090
installations that I could come across

3831
02:33:54,960 --> 02:33:53,020
with the UFO link you know so in that

3832
02:33:56,760 --> 02:33:54,970
sense I'm sort of happy with the book

3833
02:33:59,099 --> 02:33:56,770
you know in terms of what I covered but

3834
02:34:00,809 --> 02:33:59,109
you know it's like it's like abandoned

3835
02:34:02,280 --> 02:34:00,819
you know releasing its latest album they

3836
02:34:04,800 --> 02:34:02,290
could always add one little bit more a

3837
02:34:06,360 --> 02:34:04,810
guitar or heavy no I think everywhere I

3838
02:34:08,880 --> 02:34:06,370
be also thinks that there's something

3839
02:34:11,030 --> 02:34:08,890
they'd like to write afterwards what do

3840
02:34:14,519 --> 02:34:11,040
you think our listeners should take away

3841
02:34:16,410 --> 02:34:14,529
from what you did with this book well I

3842
02:34:17,700 --> 02:34:16,420
would hope the one thing more than

3843
02:34:19,950 --> 02:34:17,710
anything else I would hope they would

3844
02:34:23,610 --> 02:34:19,960
take away from the book is a realization

3845
02:34:25,170 --> 02:34:23,620
that you know literally all around not

3846
02:34:27,269 --> 02:34:25,180
just the US but the world there are

3847
02:34:29,099 --> 02:34:27,279
literally dozens and dozens of secret

3848
02:34:32,460 --> 02:34:29,109
facilities that where we dig into them

3849
02:34:34,620 --> 02:34:32,470
we find in tree stories of links to UFOs

3850
02:34:37,679 --> 02:34:34,630
and they seem to be linked to alien

3851
02:34:39,420 --> 02:34:37,689
bodies crashed UFOs back engineer and

3852
02:34:41,760 --> 02:34:39,430
things like this you know they're not

3853
02:34:43,620 --> 02:34:41,770
just sort of focusing around UFO

3854
02:34:46,500 --> 02:34:43,630
sightings and that's that's the

3855
02:34:48,870 --> 02:34:46,510
interesting thing and I think also take

3856
02:34:50,729 --> 02:34:48,880
away the fact that you know profound

3857
02:34:52,860 --> 02:34:50,739
secrets wherever they might lead are

3858
02:34:55,260 --> 02:34:52,870
being hidden from us and in some cases

3859
02:34:56,790 --> 02:34:55,270
ironically buried just under our noses

3860
02:34:59,940 --> 02:34:56,800
you know as I said like with area 51

3861
02:35:03,150 --> 02:34:59,950
just been 90 miles away from Vegas you

3862
02:35:04,740 --> 02:35:03,160
know so I think I I would hope people

3863
02:35:07,950 --> 02:35:04,750
sort of realize that you know as I said

3864
02:35:10,650 --> 02:35:07,960
area 51 isn't the be-all and end-all of

3865
02:35:12,330 --> 02:35:10,660
secret installations that when you go

3866
02:35:14,099 --> 02:35:12,340
looking for them you can find them here

3867
02:35:17,040 --> 02:35:14,109
there and everywhere and we can keep

3868
02:35:18,599 --> 02:35:17,050
looking so Nick Redfern tell our

3869
02:35:20,849 --> 02:35:18,609
listeners where they can find more of

3870
02:35:24,300 --> 02:35:20,859
the things that you do and what you're

3871
02:35:26,429 --> 02:35:24,310
up to in the future okay Nick Redferns

3872
02:35:28,349 --> 02:35:26,439
books blog spot.com

3873
02:35:31,019 --> 02:35:28,359
and as far as the future is concerned

3874
02:35:32,460 --> 02:35:31,029
I've got a book out in June again

3875
02:35:33,729 --> 02:35:32,470
through a new page books which is called

3876
02:35:35,949 --> 02:35:33,739
the pyramids and the

3877
02:35:38,409 --> 02:35:35,959
again and it's basically a study of what

3878
02:35:41,469 --> 02:35:38,419
you might call Indiana Jones type

3879
02:35:43,809 --> 02:35:41,479
characters in the government deals for

3880
02:35:46,659 --> 02:35:43,819
example with government investigations

3881
02:35:49,329 --> 02:35:46,669
of everything from Noah's Ark the ark of

3882
02:35:51,489 --> 02:35:49,339
the government the Dead Sea Scrolls and

3883
02:35:55,090 --> 02:35:51,499
also a lot of research and secret files

3884
02:35:57,189 --> 02:35:55,100
generated on ancient astronaut office

3885
02:36:00,670 --> 02:35:57,199
and researchers claiming that the

3886
02:36:04,420 --> 02:36:00,680
pyramids were built by levitation the

3887
02:36:06,550 --> 02:36:04,430
government's open weird files or such

3888
02:36:08,710 --> 02:36:06,560
6,000 weird subject relative to all this

3889
02:36:10,300 --> 02:36:08,720
I'll tell you that's got to be weird got

3890
02:36:11,979 --> 02:36:10,310
to be strange we look forward to the new

3891
02:36:14,260 --> 02:36:11,989
book Chris O'Brien where can we find

3892
02:36:16,960 --> 02:36:14,270
more of your stuff well you can find me

3893
02:36:20,199 --> 02:36:16,970
looking about helping moderate forum dr.

3894
02:36:22,809 --> 02:36:20,209
Perik cast calm and as promised we'll

3895
02:36:26,409 --> 02:36:22,819
get the new our strange planet calm side

3896
02:36:29,109 --> 02:36:26,419
up and it's it's still there it's chock

3897
02:36:31,329 --> 02:36:29,119
full of good stuff so go visit we will

3898
02:36:33,729 --> 02:36:31,339
if you have a comment or question about

3899
02:36:36,639 --> 02:36:33,739
the show write us news if the para cast

3900
02:36:38,649 --> 02:36:36,649
calm that's news at the para cast comm

3901
02:36:42,099 --> 02:36:38,659
Nick Redfern thanks for joining us this

3902
02:36:54,690 --> 02:36:42,109
week on the para cast Thanks cool Nick

3903
02:36:59,741 --> 02:36:57,970
the para cast featuring Jim Steinberg

3904
02:37:02,861 --> 02:36:59,751
and Christopher o'brien

3905
02:37:06,671 --> 02:37:02,871
is a copyrighted presentation of making

3906
02:37:10,661 --> 02:37:06,681
the impossible Incorporated tune in next